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Hook sharpening. - INDIANANGLER ->

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 Post subject: Hook sharpening.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:45 pm 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:43 am
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Location: Bangalore, India.
What's the correct procedure to obtain a good knife edge and point?

I have some Mustad's that aren't too sharp or pointy and I have this Rapala hook sharpener coming along tomorrow and hope to get the Mustad's up to scratch.

Thanks.

Rustam


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:44 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:41 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:59 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:42 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:48 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:01 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Will put up a pic. Better still come on over with a large slice of b'day caik

It's one of those Rapala thingies.

Rustam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:21 pm 
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Fishaholic

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[img][img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/RHB65/DSCN2279.jpg[/img][/img]

[img][img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/RHB65/DSCN2280.jpg[/img][/img]

[img][img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/RHB65/DSCN2281.jpg[/img][/img]

[img][img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/RHB65/DSCN2282.jpg[/img][/img]

Not too impressed or maybe I am doing it wrong. No instructions with the pack.

Rustam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:41 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Floating down the Brahamaputra! Sung to the tune of Ching Chong China Man! :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:58 pm 
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Hi Rustam,

Just saw your post and realised I had the same hook sharpener. It worked quite well for on the spot sharpening jobs.... It's easier to just use a fresh hook if you ask me.....
Haven't seen it around in ages, might have lost it :oops:

Regards,
Mighty M.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:52 am 
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Hi Rusty,

I remember sharpening my hooks with Broken pieces of ceramic tea cups etc on the shore in Bandra, it works :P

I use files for my Large hooks and oilstone for my smaller hooks. I had bought a automatic sharpener, i.e. a device with a bit up front (similar to yours in the pic) with grooves in the bit, you placed your hook point into the groove and depressed the button on the sharpener which then got the bit to move vigouously back n forth :twisted: It did sharpen the hooks but somehow I did not take up to it and is now lying somewhere in a cupboard...

I really cannot stress enough how important sharp hooks are when it comes to fishng, VERY sharp hooks will increase your hookups considerably.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:50 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Thanks, Bobby.

Managed to find a small illustrated article on Thai Fishing Guide.

Rustam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:07 pm 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:45 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:16 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:16 am 
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Good advice JB, try and find the graphics, it will help a lot.
Regards
Owen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:38 am 
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Fishaholic

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Thanks JB, that gives a very clear picture of what is required and how.

Rustam


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:40 am 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:34 am 
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Fishaholic

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Point taken, Bobby.

If you are refering to big mahseer or big barra, yes, there's that possibility. But if you keep the line taut at all times (wind in like crazy when the blighter runs past your coracle, arrgh!!), then you're usually okay.

One more aspect: if the fish somehow breaks the line, a microbarb or barbless hook is easier to get rid of. Imagine a line trailing from your mouth everywhere you go!

Say, here's another issue. For the last few years, my group has been using Gamakatsu Suicide 4X hooks exclusively for the mahseer. We compared notes with Terry Disdale, famed owner of Terry Rock, who uses Owner Suicide Cutting Point hooks. He has lost big mahseer a couple of times by the hook pulling out after extended fights. He feels that it's the spade shape of the hookpoint that enlarges the hole as the fight progresses. The Gamakatsu's never do that, and we seem to be getting more hook-ups too. Further, cutting Point hooks can never be re-sharpened properly once they get blunt.

Well, Terry and I ended up doing a barter trade: he gave me Power Gum (for stop knots) and I gave hime a few of those Gamakatsu's!

PS: thare MAY be another factor in the equation: Terry uses 80-lb Fireline braid instead of say 40-lb mono. Briad has almost zero stretch, so the forces on the hook during a big fight could be another culprit too.

><<:>


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:56 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:43 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:58 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:57 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:27 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:47 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Hi Rusty & JB,
I too do like the Owner and Gamakatsu, but the Octupus Circle pattern i have never tried, and always wondered how they would penetrate with the point bent so far inwards. Do any of you guy's seriously fish with them for mahseer ? :roll:
The mustads you have shown are rather small, and could be good for small mahseer and carnatic's Rusty. Mine start from 6/0 upwards and the wire is much thicker. They are super strong and will not break unlike the stories i am hearing about "Owner", The only issue is their sharpness even when new, so i ensure that i sharpen the lot before using them, and then resharpen before casting.
Each one has his favourite hooks, i have caught my share with O'shaunnesy sea hooks, and so stick with them. There is no hard and fast rule that says sea hooks won't work in fresh water.
What i don't trust are the Mustad's with the slits on the shank to hold bait in place. Had my share of woes with them. :evil:

While fishing for Mahseer, i never put on a small hook, just because the fishing is slow. Big mistake. :evil:
I maintain the same line BS, and the same hook size that i always use rather than scale down and try for smaller fish. Robby does not agree with me. How about you guy's ??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:41 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Rusty,
I was only pulling your third leg (if you count from right to left...).

The circle hook was first popular with drift fishing for the big pelagics like marlin and sailfish. Here's the theory: the fish takes the bait. You let it swim off with it a certain distance, then hold the line to tighten everything up gradually. The circle hook will slide out to the lips and usually hook the fish at the corner of the mouth.

The main reason for using circle hooks is so that the fish is not 'gut-hooked', making for safer release (both for angler and fish!)

It works. I started using circle hooks on my flies, for toothy critters like snakeheads. Baitfishing, I used them (the ones in Rusty's pic) for this nasty S American fish called the pacu. They have teeth that can break a stainless hook! So, hooking them at the lips avoids those choppers.

Point to remember: small circle hooks dont work as well. For the Gamakatsu Octopus Circle, the smallest i would use is #2.

Another point: you CANNOT strike on to a fish when using a circle hook. You will not hookup.

But what about mahseer? My take; I have never landed a mahseer that was guthooked yet. All have been hooked at or close to the lips. My theory: mahseer take the bait deep into the gullet, to its pharygeal teeth. This is where it crushes the food (those teeth can crush anything). Then it either blows the hook out or run off with the bait. This invariably results in the hook lodged at the lips, usually at the corner. Anyway, it's only my theory!

To me, using circle hooks for mahseer has no advantage.

One more point to share. Big mahseer impose tremendous forces on the hook. There have been cases where, if you use a Trilene knot or Palomar knot on the hook eye, the said knot will squeeze out through the gap of the eye. Make sure you close this gap carefully. Two ways:
- Superglue the thing, and/or
- tie a dummy knot on the eye, to make sure the working knot does not slide around.

Or tie the knot on the hook shank itself. my favourite is having the mainline or leader coming in from the back into the eye, then to the knot on the shank (assuming it's a straight eye).

OKay, gotta rush off for the weekend. It's now 6pm over here. The red mahseer are waiting! See ya next week! :P

><<:>


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:46 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:51 pm 
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Yeah JB,
I too use the line around the shank for Owner hooks, but use the mahseer knot when using large sea hooks.
The dummy knot with a ciggy burn at the end, or nipping off the tip of the line with my teeth ensures that no fish can work loose from either of these knots.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:54 pm 
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Fishaholic

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So Rusty when are you going sea fishing with those circle hooks ?? :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:33 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Location: Bangalore, India.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:48 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:02 pm 
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Fishaholic

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But is that responsible? Since you come across as the conscience of Indian Fishing, some neophytes, such as me, are left wondering whether the advice given to us by others is right or wrong. Hopefully, I should get an answer the third time around. :roll:

Hi Rusty, Just who told you not to use O'haunnesy sea hooks mate ? I think you have your lines crossed here. I started my fishing 25 years ago on the Kaveri using these hooks and will use them for as long as i fish. It is a hook mate, and a very simple pattern hook, unlike some of the new fangled stuff you see. Many of the top anglers of the world have used it for mahseer including "John Wilson".
This is the first time i have heard anyone say don't use this hook, it is not good for the fish.
Yes i have heard that Owner is sharper, and so you miss less fish, but nothing like you are suggesting, and belive me i have learnt my angling from the river gods Subban and Bola, and have fished with Bola as recently as July using the very same hooks, so i really don't understand what the fuss is all about. Please explain.
Sorry if i missed your earlier posts, but work has been very hectic of recent.


A good attempt at obfuscation but no cigar. Sorry! :mrgreen:[/quote]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:05 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:15 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:29 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:59 pm 
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Hi Owen,

The Gamakatsus I used to use are these......



I do not use circle hooks of any sort for freshwater fishing. The circle hook is basically a live/dead bait hook. The bend in the point is so that it catches in the lip/jaw of the fish and is not swallowed. Also as JB and Bobby pointed out you don't strike when using a circle hook.

I also think a hook with a wide gape, short shank, and slightly kirbed is the way to go for mahseer.

The Owners I presently use are SSW with CUTTING POINT, I've seen these (SSW with SUPER NEEDLE POINT) which look pretty good as well, but have never used them. Have a look at the link below.....



Regards,
Mighty Marlin.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:12 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Hi MM,
I have been through at least fifty Owner cutting point. No problem good hooks, but have heard of some hooks breaking. Whether they were Owner or immitations i have no idea. Only one problem with Owner is the cost. With the river being full of rocks and snags, they go blunt very easily. and don't sharpen to original codition that easily.
By the way i have some 8/0 Owner Aki Twist which are great with chilwa, but i don't see them advertised, i think they close out at 6/0 at the Owner site. However i will check out your post to see if you have spotted the bigger ones.
Regards
Owen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:38 pm 
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Fishaholic
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Hi Owen,
but have heard of some hooks breaking. Whether they were Owner or immitations i have no idea.
:shock: Wow that's a first!

If I remember right I paid about 30 bucks a hook when I bought them last. I think they're well worth it for that price.

Are these the hooks you're talking about? Are they made of the same gauge of wire as the All Purpose Bait Hooks? Or are they thicker?



I have some of the 'Gorilla' hooks lying about, but I think they're too thick. May work well with crab, but have never tried them.

Regards,
Mighty Marlin.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:19 pm 
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Fishaholic

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:05 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:23 am 
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[quote=]"Rustam BanaThe reason I was told not to use hooks meant for the sea (stainless as opposed to high carbon) was that they are more corrosion resistant and hence more likely to stay put in the mahseer's mouth if the line broke. Rustam[/quote]

Hi Rustam,

From what I have read, irrespective of what hook you use, when one of them is imbedded into a fishes mouth and stays there for a while, very quickly it forms an abscess and the membrane around the hook hardens and the entire thing just falls off.

Several years ago I was checking this out myself because of some stainless steel trebles I had bought.

I now use VMC hooks, the guys were kind enough to send me a load of hooks (all trebles) FOC. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:01 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:11 pm 
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Hi Rustam,

For 'How sharp is sharp enough' as far as hook points go, here's my 'rule-of-thumb'...

Holding the hook in question firmly between the thumb & fore-finger of my right hand, I gently 'drag' the point of the hook over the nail surface of my left thumb - like start near the cuticle & move up to the end of the nail - if the point can scrape/scratch or pull a fine 'hair' off the surface of the nail, then the point is sharp enough.

;-)

Pat


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:30 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:47 pm 
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Pat,

If a scratch is all it takes, then all my hooks are pointed enough. Not sure about the sharpness though.

Cheers.

Rustam


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:18 pm 
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Rusty,

My test is a little bit more 'dangerous'. I place the hookpoint against the pad of my thumb, GENTLY push it forward and lift, see whether the point can flick a bit of the skin.

You didn;t hear from me, okay (just in case you end up as a walking kavadi) :-)

><<:>


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