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Landing and releasing fish - INDIANANGLER ->

INDIANANGLER

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:21 am 
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Posts: 42
This topic has been requested by a learned scholar, and it strikes me as a damn good subject.

On my past fishing trips to northern india (5 to date), i've found myself in the hypocritical position of trying set an example by releasing everything I catch.

The gospel that I really want to preach is 'just release the big spawning females' (ie, anything over 10lbs) ... in moderation, it's ok to take the smaller ones as long as its done on a 'village consent' basis.

I remember witnessing a beautiful 25lb fish being removed from the Kali. It was hauled out of the river on a hand line and thrown unceremoniously up the bank, just so that its head could be crushed by somebodies foot ... oh well, at least it didn't suffer too much.

To my mind, there's no reason to keep a fish tied up on a stringer if it's not going to be kept for food. A piccie or two as soon as its landed is ok, but that can be done without having to tie it up for hours. Unhooking mats are useful, but they're not essential as long as you're careful and thoughtful towards the fish.

Really, if a fish is being returned then it shouldn't be necessary to lift it out of the water, other than for a brief photo.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:59 am 
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Fishaholic
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Andy,

We all can be a bit extra careful in handling Mahseer and releasing them. Using barbless single hooks as opposed to trebles may also help. With little Mahseer waters & Mahseer left it is one of the many things we can do.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:35 am 
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Hey please love my fish. They let you catch them (you aren't smart enough to do it on your known). All I ask you to do is this.
1
Use a better line, tackle and rods so that you don't have to fight and tire them out too much. Exhaution builds up lactic acids in their muscles and blah blah blah they don't recover.
2.
Once you have got Mr mahseer to the bank you get into the water. Don't take him out. Get a pair of old cotton gloves (female scooter riders wear them all the time) and handle them in the water with these on. Be very gentle while taking the hook out. If set too deep cut the hook. I have seen fish with old rusted hooks doing very well.
3.
Get your camera ready before you strike a pose. Once the camera is ready don't say 'cheese', instead cradle the mahseer like a baby and up count till three. Remember: no holding up from the gills or with the stringer or by the lip.
4.
Put Mr Mahseer back in the water at once after the snap. Rock him gently facing the flow of the water where possible. Only after you feel him get back his energy should you leave him. This might take a few minutes so be patient.
5.
Feel hounored that you actually met such a miracle.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:22 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Mahaseerken!

That's brilliant!!

Cheers

Vedan


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:01 pm 
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Fishaholic

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:56 pm 
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Hey M-Ken... Nicely done mate.... :P


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:00 pm 
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Hey own, the MCs of Wasi wanted one or two landing bags to be kept at the hut (remember at the AGM) what happened?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:07 pm 
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They are out of stock with the manufacturer. I have ordered 4 nos along with rod rests, as ome of our AI members have been wanting them.
As soon as they are ready, they will be sent to me.
Regards
Owen


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:16 pm 
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Enlightened

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:57 pm
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Hi Mahaseerken,

That is the procedure I introduced on the Cauvery late 70's and early 80's when anglers from abroad started fishing as guests of WASI. These were the standing rules for members too but sadly discontinued. I am glad you have mentioned fish not to be held by the gills and the way a fish must be released. I hope anglers in the south will take note. NO ROPES THROUGH THE GILLS PLEASE.

Keep in touch

Don


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:45 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:52 am 
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Fishaholic

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:30 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:27 pm 
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I don't think that is adviseable, it will remove much of the slime from the fishes body. The anglers hands need to be wet before touching the fish.
Regards
Owen


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:34 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:12 pm 
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Fishaholic

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:51 pm 
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Enlightened

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:57 pm
Posts: 66
Hello Sandeep,

Except in India nowhere else in the world anglers are permitted to tie fish which are to be released. Very strict rules on handling such fish prevail. In the Gulf where I have done deep sea fishing for the past six years boat skippers and anglers are prevailed upon by the UAE govt to release sailfish and very large kingfish after weighing, photographing and tagging.All skippers do not comply but the one who takes me and my sons does. In the deep sea and with a swell handling such huge fish is not only difficult but hazardous. The sails have long pointed bills which can pierce a limb with devastating results and a big king is likely to lash out and break limbs. Except for the hook no other foreign body should lodge in the mouth of a fish.

If the physiology of a fish is understood the passing of a string even a soft cotton cord through the gill and mouth will injure the delicate filaments on the gills which are in reality blood cells. Fish depend on oxygen as much as we do. In us if an artery in the neck is severed the brain is starved of oxygen and the victim goes into a coma and eventually dies. In a similar manner bleeding gills deprives the fish of oxygen and it dies a slow death.

To revive a mahseer in order to release it it must not be rocked back and forth. The backward movement is equivalent to towing a fish backwards. In an exhausted state, particularly a large mahseer its gill covers are open and a backward movement will force water through the gills in the wrong direction and drown the fish. The mahseer is cradled in the arms of the individual who is releasing it, the fish's belly rests in the palms, and the fish faces into the current. It is released only when it can swim away on a even keel.

JLRs first brochure contained a picture of a large mahseer being weighed in a net type of sling and without a string drawn through its mouth and gills. The sling was an improvement on the type I introduced for WASI's first camp for overseas anglers in 1981. So, the procedure of landing and releasing mahseer is not new to either to JLR and WASI.

The manhandling of mahseer was brought to the notice of WASI in 1995 and to JLR as recently as 2004 to no avail.

I have made postings on the handling and releasing of mahseer but apparently you have not read them.

I will support every project launched to ensure the survival of the mahseer of the Kaveri on the condition rules are made based on the foregoing and strictly adhered to.

Best regards

Don


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:26 am 
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Yes, if we love the sport & fish do the handling such that the fish survive & thrive. If it has to be killed do it quick, too.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:53 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:10 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:14 am 
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Hi Don,

Noted, No, I am not implicating you with anything, I was only making a statement about hook swallowing because I have really seen things in that department, next time I will take some pictures of these dead fish and post them.

I troll Fresh Bonito and Spanish Mackerel as well for larger game fish with release clips at times, but they are trolled like a lure. I will be in Dubai on the 8th of March, maybe we can catch up.

Contrary to popular belief that we only string fish in India, here’s a picture of a World Record Barramundi taken in Australia that proves otherwise, I presume this fish was released, note the Nylon string through the Gills, and what looks to me like pretty stiff coarse cod. This from a very popular Aussie writer and TV show's book.



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:35 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:40 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:22 pm 
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Very interesting post.

Without a doubt, stringers will damage mahseer. As mentioned by others, the 'experts' are quite often relying on outdated methods of fish handling, I think. That is probably the kindest way to put it, as they will need to learn how to handle fish.

I have designed a simple unhooking mat, two of which are being made in Mysore as we speak. One is for CWS, the other I'll use then donate to WASI just before I leave in April.

As for deep hooking mahseer, I can't see how it would happen. In my experience, they bolt as soon as they feel the hook on their lips.
Perhaps it is due to completely burying the hook in a ragi mudeh?
Leave a little of the point showing, or fish the bait on a hair rig in slower water.

Having seen a few attempts at handling mahseer on the bank, you need to be organised and most of all; don't panic.
Most fish will survive out of water for quite some time. That doesn't mean I advocate leaving them out of water, but simply that they can survive for at least five to ten minutes with little ill effect.
As before, make sure the fish is allowed to recover, supported in the water, until it kicks away itself. That may well be why stringers are still used extensively; to allow the fish to recover. It is still much better to hold them, though.

It seems WASI have a good knowledge of fish handling, I assume JLR are in a similar situation. If they have a few gillies who cling to the old ways, make sure no one uses those gillies until they adapt!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:11 pm 
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Enlightened

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Thank you Bobby, I will follow your advice on trolling for sails. Have a nice time in Dubai.

Don


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:21 pm 
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Enlightened

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Thank you Steve for the words of wisdom.

I do not believe Bobby meant mahseer and I have never known one to swallow a baited hook even with the point concealed.

As for mending old ways. Forget it.

Don


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:06 pm 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:14 am
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Hi,

Met Karthik, chief naturalist, of JLR today and briefied him on the subject. He is very keen to implement what we believe is the 'best practice' of landing fish and releasing them. I told him about getting anglers of JLR who pay for the fishing permit, to read and sign a 'best practice' document so 'ignorance' is not an issue. He said he would try to push it through JLR management.

May I request all to help me finalise the 'best practices'. We do not need seasoned anglers who are into conservation to disagree once we decide on the 'best practices'unless science or research provides new inputs.

I am driving this initiative as JLR has the most number of anglers on the river and therefore the most impact.

More posts please???


Outrigorsandeep


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:51 pm 
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Enlightened

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Thats fine Sandeep. Everything depends on the final draft. The right procedure would be all interested members meet, elect a chairman followed by election of members to an ANGLING RULES drafting committee. A certain amount of time will be given for the presentation of the draft to the members who attended the first meeting, the matter will be debated at length, amendments made if found necessary and approved.

This won't be the first time rules will be framed for angling on the Kaveri. Rules were introduced by WASI in 1977/78 and were scrapped later.

Lets hope for the best.

Don


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:42 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Hi Sandeep,

Handling the fish with gloves is not a good idea as it takes off much of the slime from the fish. Wet hands are the way to do it. Excessive body contact should also be avoided.

While the fish is on the landing mat, water should be poured over the fish.

I don't believe in using nylon ropes as stringers, and only use a very soft cotton rope that is not found in the Indian market, if i am fishing alone and need to get my camera out. The fish is never kept on a stringer for more than a minute or two during which time they recuperate and off they go.

The worst thing that anyone can do is weight the fish from a stringer and not to name anyone, but this is a sad practice that some experienced anglers have been adopting that needs changing.

The best place to take pictures is while standing in the water, so that if the fish slips from your grip, it does not hurt itself.

If a picture has to be taken on land, it should be in a kneeling position with a landing mat under the fish.

A fish that slips and falls on land is likely to be permenantly injured. It has been suggested to me that some of the rohu with deformaties that we caught at the WASI lakes may have experienced such treatment in the past.

We all make mistakes in fish handling at some time in our lives, but we need to learn and improve on this every time we are out on the water.
Regards
Owen


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:48 pm 
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Thanks Owen,

I will wait for a few more days for more anglers to contribute to this thread. I will then put dome the "do's and dont's" and forward it to Karthik at JLR.

I have a soft nylon stringer which is not like the hard nylon rope available in the market. Can this be used or would you still prefer a cotton Manila rope? I have noted that stringers need to be avoided as far as possible and this can be done if JLR buys landing mats / weighing bags.

Sandeep


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:33 pm 
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As said, "rope" isn't suitable. I personally prefer a super soft nylon cord with a loop at one end that clips into a small caribena.
As said, this is used simply to retain the fish in the water until you get to land and are ready for a photo and is never used to lift or pull the fish. Great care must also be taken to ensure that the cord runs along the inside of the gill cover and does not come into contact with the gills themselves.
The advantage of the caribena system is that the loop (spliced or whipped, never knotted) can be unclipped and gently slid out once the fish is weighed without messing about untying knots or cutting the cord.

Of course, a well designed and properly used stringer is not a replacement for a proper weigh sling and landing net - just a means of minimising the time spent out of the water and the stress to the fish.

Personally, I tie the stringer to my legf but keep an open knife available because I'm a softy european with a very healthy respect for the brute power of crocodiles.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:29 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:52 pm 
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Enlightened

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:56 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:07 pm 
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Enlightened

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:57 pm
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Thanks Owen, unfortunately just about three of us have responded to Sandeep's queries and rules based on the opinion of so few, logically, will not be valid. Since stringing is widely practiced and the majority are silent on the matter my advice is not to formulate a rule that permits stringing even in its most sophisticated form.

Give me your e-mail id and I will tell you about the tagging.

Nice hearing from you. Tight lines.

Don
[/url]


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:20 pm 
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Hello Don,

My apologies if you thought I chose to ignore your previous post on the framing of best practices. I respect your views and your experience.

As Owen mentioned I have been fishing the Cauvery for about 10 years, and not being aware of fish handling practices, have allowed Gillies to manhandle fish without raising any objection because of my ignorance. As a conservationist committed to saving our wildlife and fish, I now want to make a difference by educating the stake holders,anglers,JLR and the Gillies.

I have learnt a lot from this forum, and want to implement the best practices quickly, before more damage is done. The Gillies too need to be educated.

May I request someone with more angling experience than I have, to put together some of the do's and don't's with some sense of urgency so that we could bring it to JLR's attention.

Currently, other than releasing Mahseer, JLR has no other guide lines for the anglers,not even a bag limit for Murrel.

The sooner we can set this right the better it will be for fish and future generations of anglers.

Regards,

Sandeep


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Talking about Mulley!!! I once caught a big one (15 kgs atleast, it was 4 feet long) at Narora, UP, and it was like an old Hell's Angel. It had an old local hook in it's mouth and half a chilwa when it took my plug. The hook was rusty and in the middle of what can only be called a large corn.

Took the hook out before we made pakoras..... The chilwa was released.


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That's the way to go Bobby. Carry a camera and take a pix or else just let them go aqt that time.

Anyway they seem to get bigger when you don't have a camera. :D :D :D :D :wink: :wink:


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Bobby, Fred,
What scares me is not the adrenaline and pucker factor-I've seen my share of dangerous game hunting in africa, cape buffalo included.What scares me is there wont be any fish left, not even the bloody mutants we see now, and what do i have to pass on to my kids or teh KIDS in general?
what with the Sarju being given on lease and outward bound camps and welcome to the plastic kingdom!
I totally agree-take a pic if you have to- and release.
Its not the kill, its the thrill of the chase...
Best
Axx


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What was scary for me was Gaffing a Very Large MJ in the dead of night in the middle of nowhere. Or when I was trapped Under the a bridge in Balgaon in the middle of the night fishing. Tied my self to the pillar and was going to break the rod tip to breathe, I am not a good swimmer.


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