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INDIANANGLER

India fishing forum for all the information you require on angling, equipment, locations and trip reports.
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 Post subject: Greetings from Germany
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:29 pm 
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Enlightened

Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Germany
Hello everybody...
This weekend I found out about your great website/fishing forum and I immediately had to register myself too. I’m really glad that I finally found something that is maybe offering the chance to get in contact with people who are hooked on fishing in the same manner as myself and who might be interested to discuss various aspects of fishing in India too.

A bit about myself: I started fishing at the age of 6 and first heard about India and the famous mahseer when being 14 or 15. Those days I read some John Bailey (& other UK people’s) articles published in German fishing magazines like BLINKER and FISCH & FANG and was impressed by the size of the their captures and the adventurous story about catching these fish. I had to catch a mahseer by myself. Fishing in India was getting a big dream and a target that should get fulfilled somewhere in the future.

I’m now 35 years old and even if it took a very long time, my dream has finally turned into reality. I’ve been at the Cauvery twice and have caught some nice mahseer as well as other Indian species. I’m even involved into mahseer fishing a bit deeper. But that’s another story I’ll try to tell now you in a few words: After finishing university as a forestry scientist or timber/wildlife manager (in German my graduation is called DIPLOM FORSTWIRT) I found myself in the position to have few chances to find a job in that very special and limited area. There was only little discussion to try out something else. I’ve always been a keen fisherman, having worked in groundbait business during university holidays and having been responsible for several fishing articles in different German fishing magazines, so the idea arose to contact the major German fishing tackle companies to ask for a job as a product/purchase manager. My approach was successful and so I’m now working in the fishing tackle industry already for several years. I started working for DAIWA/CORMORAN and stayed with them for nearly six years (those days in search of new terminal tackle items). Then I moved over to ASKARI, one of Europe’s biggest mail-order companies for fishing tackle. Here I’m in charge for all the own brand items (in fact nearly everything: rods, reels, terminal tackles, clothes and so on). By doing my job I of course made many business contacts in various parts of the world. Everybody of you knows well that Asia is the main buying market for Europe, but I have the feeling that only few Indians know that India (beside China) is the main producing country for terminal tackle fishing items. One of our Indian suppliers (not only a supplier, but also a very good friend) first told me again about the Cauvery and about the Himalayan waters too. With his help I had my first trip to India together with my wife targeting mahseer. Personally I fall into love with India and the fishing possible in your country. So I’m collecting everything that can be found in the web about mahseer and I also managed (with the help of Prakash and another Indian friend) to collect most of the interesting books about the species. But till yesterday I was desperately missing the chance to discuss mahseer topics with a wider range of people. As I don’t want to get you bored with my long stories, I’ll finish this introduction soon. But maybe it could already get used to start a new discussion about several topics:

1. Is there any influence of the moon phase on the biting behavious of mahseer? On our last trip (January 2006/Bheemeswary) we started fishing with full moon and the fishing was very slow till the last two days of that trip. Just as the moon was getting smaller again we were starting to get good runs and finally managed to catch some decent sized fish.
2. At the Cauvery most fishing is done by using ragee millet flour paste, flavoured with Hing/Asafotida. Here in Europe fishing with boilies (boiled, hard paste baits) is one of the most popular ways to catch carps, barbel or tench. There are numerous scents and recipes for the flour mixture available. Everything is possible: Very fishy & ugly tastes, spicy versions as well as sweat or fruity baits. Anybody having experience trying out something else as the regular ragee/hing combination? During my last trip I tried a fishy paste made by using a European mixture and scent. I was getting plenty of small bites from catfish and carps, but as this paste was too soft to fish it in the rapids I stopped using it.
3. Some hope for a good advise! My next trip to Cauvery is planned for autumn and this time I would like to try catching other species more seriously. Any idea about a safe spot for murrel and mulley when starting from Bheemeswary?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:45 pm 
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Fishaholic
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Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:58 pm
Posts: 3010
Location: Hong Kong
Hi Dibu,

Welcome to the forum, this is a co-incidence, I think I visited your site yesterday. If it wasy your site, it has a lady and a happy looking man on the front page each holding a Mahseer. I cannot access the link you posted...

Well I am a saltwater angler, but there are a lot of very experienced Mahseer fishos on this forum that will be able to answer your questions about this Great Indian Fish.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:03 pm 
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Enlightened

Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:10 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Bangalore
Hi Dibu,
Welcome aboard...great to have someone who is working for a tackle outfit with us....With hard core mahseer anglers out here, I guess all your questions will be answered...
Belli


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:28 pm 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:26 am
Posts: 1479
Hello Dibu, Welcome to the forum !

Lots of hardcore Mahseer anglers here so you should get lots of info not only about the Kaveri, but also about other rivers in India that hold sizeable fish.
Funny, i tried the url that you mentioned (mission-masheer) but could not find the website. Also tried a google search, and came up blank.

I will try to answer some of your queries with my limited experience.

1. The lunar phase that you talked about, probably coincided with the drop in water levels on the river. The mahseer do eat better in lower water level conditions, constant variations in water levels seem to put them off eating.
The clarity of the water is a very important factor in the resulting number of takes that you get. So in other words coloured high water doesn't help much.
Water tempreature is the third important factor, and the water tempreature between mid Jan and mid March seems ideal for the lower stretches of the Kaveri (Galibori camp), where as the fishing in Bheemeshwari during the same period does not seem to be as good but is better from late November to the beginning of Jan when the water is higher and the big pools are full.
The larger slower pools in Galibori area have also produced some good fish during this period, but the best runs (the rapids) cannot be fished this early due to the high water level.

2. As for bait, ragi is not the only bait that we use, though it certainly is a good one. If you fish only the big deep pools, you will find mostly takes on ragi, but river crabs and paddy feild crabs are a very good option too.

However when you move to the rapids both ragi, chilwa (small fish) and spinning with large bright spoons are excellent.

We keep trying out various baits when bites are slow, but sometimes if the water and weather conditions are not right, nothing may work.

As you may have read, we do quite a bit of night fishing for masheer, and there is some great action in deep pools at night.
Of course this may not be possible for those staying at the Jungle Lodges campsites due to the camp restrictions, but we WASI members rarely stay at their camp sites and set up camp at some choice spots on the river, where it is possible to sit up all night with your rod right at your campsite.

3. The boilies that you have mentioned have been introduced into your lakes, and over a period of time the fish there have become addicted to their taste and smell, well the same can be said for ragi i suppose, which is the staple food of the people of Karnataka.

By the way does your company need anyone out here in India to test out their equipment :roll: Yours truly would be most interested in doing so and giving you the right feedback on your gear. :lol:

Regards
Owen


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:41 pm 
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Fishaholic
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:20 pm
Posts: 768
Location: Bangalore/Andman Islands, India
dibu wrote:

1. Is there any influence of the moon phase on the biting behavious of mahseer? On our last trip (January 2006/Bheemeswary) we started fishing with full moon and the fishing was very slow till the last two days of that trip. Just as the moon was getting smaller again we were starting to get good runs and finally managed to catch some decent sized fish.
2. At the Cauvery most fishing is done by using ragee millet flour paste, flavoured with Hing/Asafotida. Here in Europe fishing with boilies (boiled, hard paste baits) is one of the most popular ways to catch carps, barbel or tench. There are numerous scents and recipes for the flour mixture available. Everything is possible: Very fishy & ugly tastes, spicy versions as well as sweat or fruity baits. Anybody having experience trying out something else as the regular ragee/hing combination? During my last trip I tried a fishy paste made by using a European mixture and scent. I was getting plenty of small bites from catfish and carps, but as this paste was too soft to fish it in the rapids I stopped using it.
3. Some hope for a good advise! My next trip to Cauvery is planned for autumn and this time I would like to try catching other species more seriously. Any idea about a safe spot for murrel and mulley when starting from Bheemeswary?


Hi Dibu,
You've come to the right place! Welcome to IA and I'm sure all your questions will be answered leaving only more confused :wink:
To start with your first point. I'm sure the moon does have a marginal effect on the fish. But I tend to think the bites depend more on water temperature, level and clarity. A drop in water temp makes the fish sluggish and they stop feeding readily. A rise in level means 'new water' with which will come more natural food for the fish. I guess fish will move from their old haunts in search of a meal. Also access to prime 'spots' can be affected. With the water coloured it becomes more difficult for the fish to find your bait. We tend to switch to livebait when the water gets muddy or use insane amounts of hing!
If you look at the records maintained by the camps you'll see most large fish are caught on ragi. Since ragi works so well, we don't really stray far from it. Again use of bait will differ depending on the kind of water you're fishing.
I've been in search of mulley myself and have yet to land one from the Cauvery. I've heard of a place on the Cauvery where there are some big mulley to be caught but its miles away from Bheemeshwari. Your best bet would be 'Mekedatu' but again accessing the place is not easy. Murral are everywhere, they shouldn't be difficult to find.

Regards,
Mighty Marlin.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:58 pm 
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Enlightened

Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Germany
Wow what a great response within such a short time. Seems that I really found the perfect place.. :D

I’ll answer all your posts in E-mail style. Sorry if this is not yet the common way of posting in a fishing forum, but I still need time to get more common in these things…

To Bobby: Thanks for welcoming me. No problem that you’re mostly a saltwater fisherman. You might get some questions from me as well as my wife already put some pressure on me not only to go to Cauvery or other mahseer waters, but to have some beach holidays in Goa too. If we go to Goa it’ll be beach and relaxing, but definitely we will have a rod or two staying with us. Fine that you found our website. I’m the happy man on the starting page and the beautiful lady is the wife of our friend Prakash.

To Bobby: Also thanks for your warm welcome words…

To Owen Bosen: Don’t know what went wrong when you tried to enter our website, just try again. ..wait I just tried by myself and you’re right it isn’t working. It think it should be coming from the fact that there is a another dot, set to finish the sentence, added to the url. So please type in by yourself.
Moon phase: I don’t think that the moon phase could can have a big influence on the water levels where we’ve been finishing. For sure it’ll have in the tidal area of all rivers but not at Bheemeswary. Here it should be more affected by the dams and power station upstream. But I’m sure that the temperature drop might have affected the fish. To have lower temperature during the full moon phase is common in Eurore as well, but for a German it is difficult to feel the difference as in India the weather is still very hot, no matter if full or normal moon. I do also think that in a clear water the higher light levels might affect the fish. Even if best results could be achieved in gin clear water during daytime, it might spoil the night feeding habit if there is too much light during the normally dark part of the day. Your information about the different areas/pools: Heard the same from Mr Kumar and the ghillies. My fish on the starting page of mission-mahseer was finally caught in the Galibore rapids. After poor results for several days we tried out nearly everything on the last remaining days.
Ragee: I well know that ragee isn’t the only bait used in Cauvery and tried crab, chilwa and spinners by myself too. But: I just was interested to know if anybody has ever thought about modifying ragee. Even if ragee is not the only bait the famous Cauvery stretches get hammered with it on a regular base. As the fish get released after the catch they should soon learn about the danger that is coming from standard ragee balls. This effect isn’t new and many European carp-fisherman know that on a pressured water a good working bait will get blown after some time. I don’t know if the fishing pressure is already high enough to come to the same situation in India.. Fieldtester in India: I think I’ll have difficulties to realize such a idea as our main market is Europe and as we have own fieldtesters and specialists. But maybe Prakash might be interested to get in contact with you and some others about that. Maybe it would even be interesting for him to add a mailorder section to mission-mahseer. He is not in rod&reel business, but doing plenty of small things and some of them in really good quality. On the actuall starting page you can see my and a friend holding a small catfish and my wife with a beautiful common carp…

To Mighty Marlin: Also thanks to your response. As can been seen in my answer to Owen I agree totally to the temperature effect possible during full moon phases. Water levels should for sure have a effect on the fishing and for our last January trip I now think the combination of a slight temperature drop and too much varying water levels (caused by the dams) might have been the reason for slow fishing.
Re murral: I’ll try my best during the next trip and I’m also thinking about bringing an umbrella net for catching small puntius species as lifebait. Fingerlings should work fine for the murral.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:00 pm
Posts: 10
Location: alaska
WELCOME TO THE SITE DIBU,NICE TO HAVE YOU ABOARD! :lol: JIM


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:25 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:43 am
Posts: 708
Location: Bangalore, India.
Welcome aboard, Dibu.

I have heard about India making a lot of terminal tackle and even line but unfortunately, this isn't available to us locals here.

Perhaps the presence of Indian Angler may awaken these manufacturers to the potential of the local market - hopefully.

Rustam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:39 am 
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Enlightened

Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Germany
Dear Rustam,

loads of tackle getting made in India, there are many small factories in Kolkatta, but Prakash’s facilities can be found in Mumbai. The line factory Covema is close to Kochi. Some of our own brand lines are coming from them.
I’m quiet sure that India as such a big country is offering business opportunities also for selling fishing tackle, hopefully IndianAngler might cause a change in mind for the factory owners and maybe I can also be of help in convincing Prakash to have a try for the domestic market too. When he first joined me for a trip to Cauvery he was nearly shocked to see that Indian people are interested in fishing too.

dibu


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:39 pm 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:43 am
Posts: 708
Location: Bangalore, India.
Hi Dibu,

There would be a lot of people who would be very grateful if you could get the Indian manufacturers to consider selling their wares in India. At present, we have to buy almost everything from overseas and what with the exchange rate, customs duty and postage costs this puts the sport beyond the reach of many.

Point them in the direction of Indian Angler and they can gauge the enthusiasm for themselves, bearing in mind this site is only 1.5 months old.

Rustam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:55 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:26 am
Posts: 1479
Hi Dibu,
Maybe you got me wrong about the moon phase and water levels.
I meant that it is just a coincidence that the water levels changed with the moon phase while you were fishing the Kaveri, and yes the water release from the dams upriver has more to do with the water level variation than anything else, except for some sudden very heavy showers that can bring up the water level and discolour the water.

This year has been a particularly poor year for Masheer angling on the Kaveri due to the intermittent release of water from the KR Sagar dam upstream. The rainfall last year is probably the highest we have had for many years in this region, and hence the out flow.

Another factor that we have been considering is the fact that this stretch has become overfished, and accessable to people who would never have stepped into this area say 5 years back, and this too has taken its toll on the fishing and the favourite haunts of the very wily fish that we have spent much of our lives in persuit of.

Coming down to tackle, and line in particular, i have seen quite a few Indian line manufacturers listed on the web, but do they really make the kind of mono that we use ? As you are aware we guy's mostly use 30 to 40 lb monofilament, that is abrasion resistant. Does the line that you refer to compare to brands like Berkley Big Game, Andyline, Maxima, Drennan etc. I find that most of the Indian manufacturers make line that is of larger diameter for the same given strength. Can you share your thoughts with us.
I have tried many of the lighter lines manufactured here (6 to 12 lb) and have found them no match for line manufactured by the above mentioned companies, and hence never risk loosing a Masheer on inferior quality line ( not to say that i have not lost big fish due to breaks on excellent quality line).
And by the way I am Indian.
Regards
Owen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:39 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:43 am
Posts: 708
Location: Bangalore, India.
Morning, Owen!

Don't know whether this is true but I am told that Berkley source their line from a company in Coimbatore.

Rustam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:25 am 
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Enlightened

Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Germany
Hi Owen,

thanks for your two long replies.

Fishing lines: The extruding process for making a fishing line needs high end machinery. The extruders used in India or China should all be made in Europe or the USA, they are on the same high standard as everywhere in the world. The polymere raw materials are coming from Germany from BASF and a few other sources.

This is the base for making a good fishing line. There are a few things that are needed to get a line into very good or very special. The knowledge about this might not be available to all Chinese or Indian factories. I mean the raw materials or additional ingrediences to make invisible fluocarbon lines, camouflage two tone lines, or special bath and stretching procedures needed to get either a very soft or very stiff line.

Chinese or Indian manufacturers are able to make very acceptable lines. This is something I'm looking at for my own fishing. You might have noticed my fishing here in Europe in is mostly for good size carp. The fishing is bottom fishing in lakes, rivers or canals. I use lines I can trust but that don't need big money.

If you're fishing very expensive lines the money might press you into leaving the line on the reels for too long. When I had plenty of time for fishing in the past (2 to 3 days or nights per week) I changed my line at least every two month. You can't do this when using the expensive brands.

I think to change the line on a regular base should be even more important for you fishing such extremely rocky and snaggy waters (with the lines exposed to heavy sunshine and UV rays all the time).

Breaking strength: If a Indian or Chinese 40 or 50lbs line is lower as stated, say maybe 35lbs. it is also no big problem as even with a big mahseer on one end and you pulling heavily on the other there will be no pressure on it close to 35lbs. Try out by yourself: Connect your tackle to a proper scale and pull as hard as possible...you'll be surprised how little pressure can be made.

Breaking strength in general: In the past many brands were lying about the breaking strength. Italian suppliers have been the most infamous, sometimes making their lines 3 to 4 stronger as it really was. The European Fishing Tackle Trade Association (EFTTA) developed a line testing process because of this and the liars have been made public. So nowadays I think you can trust mostly the information about European brands, maybe even more as US lines.

Dirk


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:51 pm 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:26 am
Posts: 1479
Hi Dirk,

Yes the cost of good fishing line causes us a lot of grief, and the use of Indian fishing line for Masheer has caused me even more grief.

Sad to say, but i am not willing to compromise on that for fear of loosing the fish of a lifetime. No amount of land testing will substitute for actual experience with fishing gear on the water.

Since the waters we fish have record size masheer (as you know), it would be foolish on our part to take any chances.
For an example, let me tell you of one instance while using brand new Indian line that was rated for 40 lbs.

Well to start with it was a lot thicker than the imported brands that i mentioned earlier. I was using Chilwa as bait, and fishing from the top of a rock in a place called Mekadatu which had some very big masheer in days gone by.

Every time i lowered my bait into the water, the bait was taken almost immediately, and having set the multiplier drag quite tight due to the tendancy of the fish to take your bait into the caverns cut under the rocks .
I had 5 takes and 5 breaks that morning, and gave up and changed the line to 40lb Maxima (Sigma).

My next strike came that evening at the same spot, and even though it was a tough job landing the fish, with the line frayed pretty badly in many places, we finally landed the fish nearly a 100 meters from where it was hooked.

I have never used Indian line for big game fishing thereafter, even though it means that we sometimes need to change line every alternate day if the fishing is good.
.
By the way, Bheemeshwari is not the better place to fish for big masheer these days.

Regards
Owen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:36 pm 
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Enlightened

Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Germany
Dear Owen,

I think you also got me wrong. I would never ever advise you to really cheap stuff just in the sake of being able to change line more regulary. If you’re in the position to afford top lines like for example Daiwa Super Shinobi or others and can fully change line after each trip or even during the trip -when having the feeling it is needed- you’re always on the safe side (as long as it is guarantied that your stock is fresh).

Also for my own fishing I use none of the very cheap lines. I use medium prized lines that you can compare with brands like Berkely BIG GAME or Sufix SYNERGY, even MAXIMA I would quote as such a medium range line. If you are taking highest level Indian or Chinese lines you get the same standard at a even better price. But anyhow I will always try out the lines before fishing, proper knot testing, rubbing them over a key or other edgy item.

I don’t know about the offers in the few Indian fishing stores. I can easily believe that they offering the cheapest and most competitive lines, which are rubbish. Also I think it’ll be more easy to buy a bad quality line (even if top brand and high prized) in India than elsewhere in the world. Just because of the extreme climate and lack of knowledge about storing a line (keeping it away from direct sunshine or two high temperatures) a lot can go wrong.

Dirk


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:17 pm 
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Fishaholic
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:20 pm
Posts: 768
Location: Bangalore/Andman Islands, India
Hi Dibu,

I was reading through the last couple of posts and think you're the prefect guy to ask.
How does one store line? I presently have my spools in plastic containers stored in a cupboard.
Does mono have a shelf life? I have spools of line with me that are about 4 -5years old. Does mono this old tend to disintegrate over time even if kept in a dark place?

Regards,
Mighty Marlin.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:30 pm 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:26 am
Posts: 1479
Yeah Dibu!
Please tell him it does, so that we can all partake in MM's wealth of line :lol:
I may be wrong MM, but i am coming to the end of 2 spools of 2 pounds each of mono that i have stored in a cool dark place for a couple of years, without feeling much difference in the line, but perhaps Dibu will have something different to say on this.
Regards
Owen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:45 pm 
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Enlightened

Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:24 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Germany
Mighty Marlin wrote:
,
How does one store line? I presently have my spools in plastic containers stored in a cupboard.
Does mono have a shelf life? I have spools of line with me that are about 4 -5years old. Does mono this old tend to disintegrate over time even if kept in a dark place?
.


I store my lines in a dark and moderate temperatured place (seldem more as 20°C). Take care that you don't expose lines to direct sunlight at home. For serious fishing I'd advise you to use no lines older as two years. For pleasure fishing with the kids or catching life bait I wouldn't care so much but as Owen mentioned it is a shame to risk the fish of a lifetime because of a bad line. I'm working for a fishing tackle outfitter so I never have problems in getting "fresh" line. I can control at least when the goods have been coming into our warehouse. Do you know when they entered your shop and how long they've been already lying in the factory or wholesale warehouse?

Dirk


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:01 pm 
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Fishaholic
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:20 pm
Posts: 768
Location: Bangalore/Andman Islands, India
Hi Dibu,

Yup I pretty much store my line the same way so I guess it should be alright. Since I order my line from a factory I guess it's pretty new.
Only way to make sure line is new is to fish more!!! There's no other way :P

Regards,
Mighty M.


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