INDIANANGLER

Hello Everybody,
its my great pleasure to extend my Greetings to all of you .Its also very encouraging to see so many devoted anglers interacting on IA. This interaction will bridge the gap between the anglers from the South and those of the North.Now a bit about myself.
I was born in an Army setup and came to take to outdoor sports and shooting at the age of 6 in Ranikhet . Angling came later at about the age of 10 .Thereafter from float fishing in the Chandigarh Lake,we went out to Ropar and Bhakra and further and further .I myself joined the army and spent 25 yrs there.I fished where ever I was posted .
I then took premature retirement and came back to Chandigarh . after taking retirement I was a free bird, I spent 6 months fishing Chandigarh lake and then off to Ropar for 3 months followed by a good 13 yrs at Bhakra. I now fish the Yamuna,The Beas,the Sutluj and other smaller rivers.
I taught angling to many and in the last 2 yrs brought in sufficient angling equipment to be able to circumvent the trickiest of big fish. My main line today is Angling and I just love and cant do without this sport.I am not professional or commercial
It will be wonderful to come to know and interact with all of you.Till then Cheers!

Wecome aboard ... dont forget about broidging the gap between the West and East mate ...the best anglers are here mate

Welcome aboard

Sounds like you lead the anglers dream of an ideal life.One day i want to grow up and be like you .I am sure you have many interesting tales of fishing considering the fact that you must fished in locations we cant even approach(ie being in the army)

Tight lines

cheers
Phish

Welcome aboard.

IndianAngler

Welcome to IA!
Regards,
Yaj.

Hi Hamdhingra,

welcome to the forum. A lot of us already envy you.

Welcome,

Its nice to know you are not proffesional or commercial.... are you free?

RulerofSun

Hi there Hamdhingra,

Hve fun out here in the pool of madness.

Think I have met you at Bhakra. Are you still taking the fish home?

Hey there,
Fred I feel a little closer to East since I was posted there twice.I havnt been South of Bombay – thus the feeling of alienation from the South. For Rulerofsun –I am free –only bogged down with day to day chores-and the moment I am free we zip to one of our locations.For Mahaseerken -Yes I do take as much of fish as is required – Who was with u when we met at Bhakra - it will be good to remember.

Hi Ham,

Met at the boom. I sometimes come with Vijay from Delhi. But mostly I am there alone. Seen you camp the night on the slope. That's where I met you and your son I think.

How is that magic plug of yours?

cheers

Where was the need for this one?

[img][img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/RHB65/self_1A.jpg[/img][/img]

Rustam

Aaaaaaaargh!

Another one gone.

People just a few left. Take care of them please.

How fast pictures travel - There is not one but maybe a hundred a thousand of others present there - this one was caught above Ropar waters .There are big giants there .The fact that they do not get hooked is not because they are not there but that they see happy anglers making a lot of noise –coming down to the waters edge and then beginning to spin away and they see all this and just ignore the lure. They broke a shimano Tdr 9 ft med hvy action rod in two and even neutralised the best of line and owners 4x hooks.(Since the force of the water is with them).These waters are often shut and the place becomes dry and they fall to the sticks and dandas of the local population - where whole villages move in for the booty. This season till now anglers have taken about 30 mahseer from there average sz being about 9-10 Kg/22lbs.this one was 23 KGs/50Lbs Right now since 2 days the waters are again closed/reduced to minimum. (they were last closed from 5-20 May 07.Come witness what goes on there,.everytime the waters are emptied out the fish is killed/disappears and no sooner that the waters are released that the fish is back in 15 days time. Hand held sonars, underwater cameras can tell u better about how many fish are there. Their habitat is secure and safe and now I can understand how they move to their safe heavens and be back time and again. .The survival instinct in all species is strong .
This one had the lure deep in its throat - She fought a good 30 minutes-and was brought in against the current –Insides were done bad - there was little or no chance of survival even if it was intended. In any case I did not intend to release this one.The rod had dug into my stomach with a good number of blue marks left there in memory of the tough fight.One of the toughest fights experienced by me till now- even more than Pancheswar.There u can run down/up with the fish-here its bad – one wrong step and u may well be fishfood thereafter . Cheers for now…Ham

Rustom I keep trophies where permitted.

And in return for the pleasure she gave you, you rewarded her by killing and eating her?

You're signature line says "Take a child fishing". I hope you aren't teaching them to kill what they catch. Very soon there will be no fish left.

Taking trophies may be permitted as per law in your area but what are you doing to conserve your sport and that of future generations?

Ham!

I know you are a very good angler. I have seen you catch fish when everybody else has gone back empty handed. I think you should use this knowledge and experience to educate the people you meet. If the 'children you teach' learn to kill fish just because they fought well then it is the end of fishing. Great adversaries respect each other.

I think every one of us here has killed mahseer, I know I have. But like the tiger they are going fast. So please let the mahseer go to fight another day. And then the children will be able to teach their children.

cheers

Hi Ham,

Welcome to the forum..

You may have your own good reason(maybe a big family) to take home a 50 lb fish for pot.. . but please remember that game fish are too valuable to be caught only once.

santosh

A few good pictures would have sufficed, as well as gained you the respect of your peers.

One expects someone of your years and experience to set a good example.

Rustam

Hey HAm

If you want Blue marks and want to take the fish home then get into Salt water fishing .. dont fish for these beauties if you cannot release them .. there are too few left .... for the chldren to be able to fish ...like youre signature says ...

I quote again from a previous post of mine:

"... there are many fishermen in these parts who stand resistant against change, who will never dream of releasing a big fish, whose fathers never did either, and whose sons may not have the chance..."

such a beauty, such a pity, such.....disbelief

indeed heading for a disaster

ever wonder why we have a common carp and not a "common mahseer" ? or even why there isnt a corpse for every notch on a bedpost ?

with a game fish as majestic and rare as the mahseer, the proof of the pudding is amply preserved in a quick photograph by the waters... and not in the eating.

game fishing and conservation seem like chalk n cheese. bite a little deeper and longer around here, ham. the only difference worth mulling about is the one you make.

Well put Yak!

The last thing I want a great mahseer to become is a burp.

man i havent even seen a masheer so far - hope there are some left by the time my chance comes.

John You better hurry. The way some people are going there won't be any left by the end of the month.

I think we have taken this mahseer extinction too far .Man was never so powerful so as to wipe out a species.There is mahseer in plenty and all over . yes they have decreased due to food sharing by other species , the control of waters and suchlike things but they are there and in plenty.All generations will see and fish the mahseer - We who have recently turned conservationists -because its the in thing these days have not really bothered to go into minute details. Way back in 1970 when I fished the yamuna - the challenge to hook Mahseer was the same as it is today. Pancheshwar was the same. Ganges was a comparitively better bet then.
I presume we all eat fish - and enjoy it . If u really want to take up the cause of this mahseer conservation take up some part of the river and I will teach u how to rear the fish there in millions .Its all perfectly legal and not like wildlife where u can’t keep any wild animal. Just had a talk with Dr Sahi (wildlife and Zoology Jammu) and my thoughts and ideas are in good order.
I would also like to state that data from Alaska fish and wildlife states that 50% of all hooked fish die. So maybe the conservationists need to now bring in legislations from the govt of India to ban treble hooks as also that single hooks be barbless.When I was a small child I had a fish tank at home and all the good looking fish I caught(carp family) in the chandigarh lake – were transported immediately to this pond. They would all die sooner or later .The one that lived the longest was a mirgal for about 14 days.Resident fish survived and bred –there was no problem about the water –its that hooked fish eventually die.
I worked to understand fish - their ways - its a lifetime spent on this .Give me any river and I will flood it with Mahseer in just 3 yrs have fish weighing upto 3 kgs there.But with that has to come protection- for local mafia always exists. And then there would be no worry about future generations not seeing the mahseer. Anglers at best take .1%(Point one) of all fish caught .So conservation would essentially mean getting to others who take the majority. The 1 inch net walas , the poison walas and so on. Last yr Jun Dadhupur was full of dead fish - apparently poisoned - it was a pain !
To end I would advocate conservation that we take what we need and can consume. We need to get more scientific in our approach to conservation .In a few days/weeks time I will post an article as to how we can have mahseer teeming our waters.
Please read “The rod in India by Henry Sullivan Thomas page 341 and realize that even in practical actually carried out and fishing by local anglers encouraged (with fish caught even allowed to be sold) the fish always grows in numbers .this was because there was no netting .This article is an eye opener.
I am in appreciation of all the comments I have received – after all we expect the Angling Lobby in India to be strong one day. Cheers…Ham
John u come down - I will get u to the Mahseer even in Dec Jan and Feb!

Hi, that magic plug which I made still works extremely well. Got an 8 kg grass carp in Bhakra this season (it was a proper take)and got about 5 trout on it in Banjaar. good wishes...ham

I have found as also what I read in books and from experts that the Mahseer spawns thrice a year.Apr to Dec you will find eggs in her.Some say they spawn in batches with limited no of eggs being laid but I have not found this to be so -I am working on it. This is now sure to me that she spawns thrice a yr. .This carp always has eggs in her .Other carps spawn once (unless we create artificial conditions) and thus I feel Mahseer has a greater rate of survival than other carp family fish. Pl consider this fact and corelate it to mahseer conservation.

Welcome to the forum..

Hi Hamdhingra

Its good to have a different view on the subject. I agree with you that mahaseer (and many other species) are disappearing not becuase there are too many anglers who do not release the fish they catch but because of the illegal commercial netting and all other illegal methods that you have mentioned. You know there are days when i dont catch a single worthmetioning fish even after spending many hours and using all kinds of lures/baits. And there i see a commercial fisherman winding his nets and taking hundreds of fish right infront of my eyes. Nevertheless, I believe that whatever is not needed must be released. But if that hook damage theory of yours is correct than there is no point releasing the fish anyway? I relaeased about 80 out of 100 trouts i caught this year. Wonder how many would have survived? I think we need to have some authenticated research on the issue.
As for mahaseer breeding thrice a year, i am not sure but i can say for sure that Common Carp (called Gulfam in Punjab) does breed twice or thrice a years. I think we are going to benefit a lot from your experiences.
Cheers
Sualeh

Sorry chaps,

I dont know what some of you may have to say to this, but I wouldnt want to even hook a masheer if I knew it were to die.

Food for thought........... if someone has a 50% chance of surviving (a hook up), would you not give it that chance ? (put yourself in a 50 - 50% chance of survival, what would you do? )

Food for thought.......... Tiny drops of water make the mighty Ocean. Can anyone deny this ?

For the record....Man is the main cause for extinction, either directly or indirectly.

Sualeh its good to hear ur views . I have had equally frustrating days -but it is these days that gets our mind working as to why did the fish not take. Many times the fish I release are hopeless but then I put them back as food for other fish. Rainbow tears more than the brown.if you are into fly fishing then many a fish will survive.The figures I gave u from Alaska fish and wildlife and my personal fish tank are all very accurate.In Bhakra recently the fisheries officer there has captured one inch nets by the tons and ignited them Hats off to him.In Bhakra this season our biggest was 5 Kg mahseer .it was not so that bigger ones are not there but they are v smart .It has been a pleasure to exchange views. Cheers...Ham

Firstly let's get one thing very clear. People don't get into conservation (apart from the cocktail circuit bimbos who do bugger all in any case) because it's the in thing. They do it out of a good conscience and to ensure a continuation of their chosen field sport - be it fishing and/or hunting. Needless to say, they do it not only for themselves but for the generations to follow. The days when there was no dearth of habitat are over. Today, we better conserve what we have or loose it for good.

Whilst there may be a good number of mahseer in your stretch, how many of them do you think have a chance of growing really big, if anglers add to their declining numbers? To say that they are being netted, dynamited or there is a 50% mortality rate for fish that have been caught and released are nothing more than excuses to justify your actions.

Further, your guarantees that you can successfully breed mahseer upto 3 kgs in any water is heartening (any reason you haven't done so yet?) but what about the truly big mahseers? If you encourage people to take those out as well as the smaller one's, what chance do the majority of us have in seeing and playing these big fish?

Before refering to page 341 of H.S. Thomas' 'The Rod In India', perhaps you should have borne in mind that he lived in an age when the pressures on the habitat and the population were far lower than what they are today.



The question is where does 'need' end and 'greed' (for meat and a bit of cheap glory) begin.



I for one look forward to that. An actual demonstration would go down even better.

Rustam

Rather have 50% mortality when the fish are released than 100% mortality when they are made into curry at home.

what about estimated 15,500 plus plant & animal species threatened with extinction? and 800 recorded extinctions? you mean to say man is not involved in any of it?

Maybe you have some scientific explanation to this as well.

The last extinction caused by man was the Chines White Dolphin. It was declared 'functionally extinct' just a few weeks ago.

You can get a list of extinct animal here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinct_animals.

All caused by man.

Man was never so powerful so as to wipe out a species.!


Gentlemen this is incomplete pl add the following to it.

" it is the destruction of the habitat and their safe heavens that led to extinction"

And man has no hand in destroying the habitat or safe havens. Nor does man have a hand in messing around with the breeding cycles.

I think this debate is futile. We could go on and on but....

So Mahaseerken ,is it then justified that a conservationist like u will accept a kill rate of 50% in fishing –I then ask you why fish at all ?
Don’t hammer down your point that much –the equation is clear and simple –I keep what I want and release what I want . your saying is not going to make any difference. Instead who don’t u go down where they use phandis, poison, explosives, illegal nets and there do something which actually matters . I can always ring u up wherever I see these things going on and would like to see ur contribution in the field….Cheers…Ham

Thanks Rustam for pouring out ur feelings and needing reassurance . See the pond of Henry Thomas was made(redone) and measured only 3-4 acres. so where is the changing pressure of / on environment got to do with those days and modern days . 2 lbs in weight of fry was put in and snails ofcourse did the rest.No fishing for 18 months and then anyone and everyone could fish to their hearts desire and take the fish home. The fishermen increased- their reels grew bigger- and the catch bigger and better with each passing year.All the carp family adapted to changed environment and bred there.
I am now growing old and do not have that energy to run a mahseer breeding cum rearing centre. Haryana under the last dir fisheries got 22 lacks from the Govt to breed mahseer in cages in the yamuna.The project died with the directors retirement.Anyones guess where the money went. If u are so strong about the Mahseer and ur love for it –Please do some work and take on this project – It will take about 35 lacks and more than that your never ending efforts and dedication. I promise all knowledge and expertise. Go and see the trout breeding farm in Manmaichu in sikkim Vs others in Himachal and u will know what dedication means.
Way back in 95-96 no one fished bhakra for Mahseer except one set of anglers from chandigarh and they all kept it v v secretive. I after my retirement went further from bigger to even bigger waters and found mahseer in plenty in Bhakra. Me and my son had 9 trips that season and at the end of it we got a detailed report prepared (giving details of weather,no of rods,no of fish caught in each weight category,number released,) I sent this report to about 25 anglers / director fisheries of the close by states. Bham –Mahseer fishing started in Bhakra . Anglers mostly from Delhi and Punjab came there regularly . HAA and Himachal fisheries started holding competitions there . Its > 10 yrs now and Bhakra remains good .This report (independent in nature) and w/o anyones knowledge brought down a lot of ruffled feathers and also gave a boost to many(mainly the NGO’s and the fisheries and the environmentalists) Then 3 yrs back automatic net manufacturing machines came in and nets became dog cheap.The locals began to use 1 inch nets on/close to the shores , and did send the mahseer in a spin.A large no of nets have been burnt after confiscation. Now will u grade this report of mine also as anti conservation for I told the angling fraternity where to fish for Mahseer ! Anglers fish the bhakra and there are only 2 anglers that I know of who release fish.

So let us Anglers not grill each other on the barbecue - Anglers are few and this community needs to grow. You are apparently new to the mahseer . Why we say there is less mahseer because we do not catch it everytime. All angling destinations are flocked with anglers – there is a lot of commotion next to the water - the water is beaten mercilessly with cast after cast – and then we expect the fish to take ! When I took my son to Pancheswar at the age of 9 with all other grown ups –his mother advised him “Talk less and listen more” . I ensured he did so and today he has fair expertise in Mahseer. So maybe its better to listen to the experienced.
You pick up my one sentence Quote it and then begin to flog it .Ur whole message appears to be to bushwhack me. Please do not do it . It makes me feel u may have worked for a present day news channel , - where they keep on repeating thrashing the same thing again and again.
Let us rise to better levels – Let me speak to anglers on stress on hooked fish –strokes in hooked fish – 1st aid to fish that we would like to return to the environment – how to essentially make exhausted fish survive in de-oxygenated /lesser oxygenated waters . Fishing does considerable damage to a fish. Put ur self in the fishes shoes – take in a hook and run against the drag and that too as wildly as the mahseer.Take 10 odd runs.get exhausted be brought out of water and have lovely pictures taken while u gasp for breath. And then be put back with a badly torn mouth and sides and feel no guilt. Friend sport fishing means hurting the fish – u begin to put it back or take it home – U make ur choice – I am no one to tell u what is right or wrong.Yes one thing I will tell u that to give the fish a painless end is better and is best done with a stun gun to the head. The fish must be done as soon as it is landed. Under stress of being tied she will generate chemicals which will turn the flesh to poorer grade.
Bye my friend – I will hereafter not answer to any bushwhacking –I hope u grow to be one of the Best Anglers……and overcome where I failed ...... :Cheers….Ham

yes one needs to go after those who destroy habitat - be it to your kind information that there is no closed season in Punjab . For the angler can take very little or practically nothing. The season remains closed to the Jaal wallas in Punjab .Yes this discussion is turning futile and its time we devote our energies to other topics. I Thank you and the others for all that u have put across to me....Cheers...Ham

Hi Hamdhingra,
Welcome 2 the forum.
I read ur write up, very interesting, i am sure u will benefit all anglers on this forum, with ur valuable inputs.

Bye & TC,
Vinayak

Welcome aboard Guruji,


Your entry to the forum was long awaited. I am sure we all will learn from your expertise!!!

Say, what about another one at lohan with Dipu, during this week or weekend ?


Harryxs.

Harry,
lohan canals were shut down for about 5 days .The same ol thing happened .All moved in and did a good job of finishing off all fish they could get hold of. God has his ways and so he let loose lohan Nalah which was in spate and it covered all the boulders our side. and a lot of fish went up lohan. So countless got away and the locals could not get to our lures which we loose - lets say 3-5 each trip . It will take atleast a week for fish action to recover - however the joy of spinning for 2-4 hrs and a good sweatout out there is pleasure enough. Just call me and I will be there...God Wishes...Ham

God! So much data on what to do and what not to do with your Mahseer!!! Yes, conservation is a must [ so is putting new Mahseer fingerlings in depleted waters] so that we build back the numbers and allow anglers to take 1-2 fish for the pot, while strictly conserving large females. Also, we anglers in north india have 0% percent influence on Mahseer conservation and policy matters effecting Mahseer waters. We are tiny in numbers and fragmented.

I do not see we ever having effect on things such as mass killings of fish in canals due to low water conditions/repair of canals in the near future. I remember Mr.Korla of HP Fishries ruing the fact if there are so many trout anglers in HP why is there poor growth in Trout Licenses??!!

India may not ever hunt but we do need a policy on sport fishing at MoEF level.

Bops, we could start writing. All IA members letters sent individually would atleast make them people aware that there is something called angling and we just happen to have one the greatest freshwater game in the world. They would come to know about the word "Mahseer".