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 Post subject: shooting murrel
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:39 pm 
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Location: ahmedabad
I have a distant relative who loves eating murrel but is not an angler. He has a farm near a small river, which has lot of murrel. The river is lined on both the banks by farmland and the farmers are pure vegetarian so no one ever fishes there. So whenever he wants a murrel for dinner, he goes to the river and climbs a flat rock about 15 feet high and sits on it. Around 1 or 2 o clock in the afternoon when the murrel come up for air or for basking in the sun, he takes out his 30-06 rifle fitted with a 4x32 scope and takes aim a few inches below the fish to compensate for water refraction and pulls the trigger. The murrel is blown to the high heavens :roll:. poor fish. Since he uses hard nose bullets, it drills a clean hole and does not destroy the flesh.

Next month i will give him a visit and try to show him that angling is a better alternative for getting murrel. I have ordered few frogs from cabelas(as advised by owen) and i think that should work. I want to know the best time of the day and the best time of the year to catch them.I even want to know how the frogs are to be retrived as i have no experience with artificial lures. can we target wallago attu with these lures? and do ledgered worms work for these fish? moreover when is their breeding season? waiting for your advice..


regards,

aamir.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:30 am 
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Location: Just outside New Delhi
Hey Mate,

Don't want to pass any judgement but I think shooting fish is dangerous if not a bit stupid.

Bullets skip off water. And then who knows where they can go. Just to inform you that a bullet has a singular purpose in life - hit something. And there are farms around as you say. So you do the maths.

Mate please get your distant relative to check on the net as to how many accidents have happened 'coz of this. Since you plan to visit him take the opportunity to educate the bloke. In short teach him how to fish with a rod.

Peace, Love and God Bless you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:55 pm 
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Hi Doc!
Use the frogs by just dipping them in the water with a short line, if there are as many murral as you say, they will go for it. Keep to the banks, murral are seldom in deep water.
You can also cast and retreive the frog slowly using a swivel between the frog and the mainline.
Mepps spinners in silver colour are also a great way of catching them.
Bright sunshine around mid day should be the best time for success with spinners.
I think they should breed like most other fish during the monsoon period.
For wallago attu you will need a meaty bait. You can use a small fish or even a piece of fish or catch a small fish and after taking off the scales, cut thin long strips off the fish and threadle it onto the hook. Even a chunk of any meat can work. Use large hooks if the fish are big, size 4/0 to 8/0 should be fine for the big ones. Remember to put a lot of flesh on the hook.
Even earth worms will work for both murral and walago attu.
Tight Lines
Owen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:37 pm 
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Location: Just outside New Delhi
Hey!
Wallago attu hits a lure pretty well. Caught a lot at a place called Naurora, 100+ clicks out of Delhi, in 2002. We used countdowns, husky jerks, rattlins and shad raps (Deep Divers in the day and Shallow runners in low light). Colours varied from silvers to blues but the more real the better. A lot of nice Chital and Singhara too would take.

There were supposed to be a lot of Mahseer and even a few Gangetic Dolphin but I never saw them.

Wonder what is happening there right now.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:58 pm 
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hi owen/ken,

Iam in no way condoning this mans act. I think it is very foolish and dangerous to do it. That is why i want to convert this man to angling. I just wanted to show that such a thing happens. Thanks a lot for the info. did you use metal leaders for the wallago attu?


regards,

aamir.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:04 pm 
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Location: Just outside New Delhi
No wire trace or leader. We used a few feet of heavy mono. Did have a few break offs but I was informed that it was 'Silund' that just go through the mono.

The locals would use a kind of silk braid as a leader. The explanation was that the strands get between the teeth and can't be bitten by the fish.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:16 pm 
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Use a thin wire leader if you are ledgering, the wallago have nice sharp teeth. I have never caught them on a lure, as not many fish take lures that freely here in the south. This is bound to get the hackles up for guys like Bops :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:23 am 
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Am told -
take 2- 3 strands of a clutch /brake cable and use it as a leader.wrap your swivel at one end and tie with cotton thread and then a few drops odf araldite
same at the other end to form a loop to tie your hook.
try 40lb mono and see /tell us what the story is...
best
Axx


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:18 am 
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Probably have a bird nest because of the twist on the cable Asif.
Piano wire or a guitar string for one time use should work for medium to light fishing.
Have we been down this road before :roll:


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 Post subject: Shooting Murrel
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:26 am 
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Location: Bangalore, India
What a shamefful waste of Cartridges,Murrel and Money. You could tell your
cousin that we will catch Murrel for him in exchange for 30.06 Cartridges.

Small Fry/Big Fish.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:59 am 
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Gentlemen,

Contradictory to what you all have to say I think shooting fish for the pot can be fun. Some of you guys are probably being polite and going with the flow… :roll:

I say any kind of shooting is a waste of cartridges if you look at it that way. At the end of the day we all spend money on a something that gives us pleasure and if a man revels in shooting Murral as opposed to catching one with the rod, who are we to judge just because we are anglers? A lot of people would think spending thousands of dollars flying down to the Cauveri or to any other place catching a fish and then releasing it is the most idiotic thing in the world, we call it heaven, a dream come true, a pursuit of passion and can find another couple of dozen pleasurable adjectives or phrases to describe the experience.

Remember one mans food is another mans poison. :lol: :lol: :lol: and this applys both ways but remember, no one is forcing you to eat another mans food here :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bobby


Last edited by Bobby on Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:15 pm 
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What a shamefful waste of Cartridges,Murrel and Money. You could tell your
cousin that we will catch Murrel for him in exchange for 30.06 Cartridges.




And what would you do with the cartridges alexis???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:18 am 
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Use the lead for sinkers :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:42 pm 
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Alexis, Alexis...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:12 pm 
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Owen wrote:
Use the lead for sinkers :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Nice one, brass casing for spinners or spoons?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:36 pm 
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keep your powder dry mate, this is one ingredient even Gav wont recommend in the bait! :evil: 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:27 pm 
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Bobby wrote:
Owen wrote:
Use the lead for sinkers :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Nice one, brass casing for spinners or spoons?

And the gunpowder will light up Gavin for Christmas :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:47 pm 
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Location: Kolkata,India
.... and each time his balls clashed together,
Sparks came out from his @$$e :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:35 pm 
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Didnt take him long to get here, did it? ;) beats a shark hands down for sheer smell-ability!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:38 pm 
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Location: Kolkata,India
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:01 pm 
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Location: Bangalore, India
If you read the signature on Shameless waste of Money/Cartridges etc Please Note this is is Alex's Mum Not Alexis.Just forgot my password thats all and replied in his name.
Better use 30.06 Cartridges for what they are meant to be used for.Not Sink Murrel to the Bottom.Thats my Opinion of course, since I was brought up Huntind AND Fishing. A lot of Places open now to use 30.06 Cartridges legally rather than on Sinking Fish than Landing them.

Alexis's Mum. so you are Not mistaken.
Small Fry/Big Fish.
Big Fish/Small Fry


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:00 am 
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Location: Bangalore, India
From the Mother.
If he loves shooting Fish why not use an Air Rifle .177 or .22 or even a .22Brno Rifle. Yes one Man's Meat is another's poison, but we are offering to give him Murrel in exchange for 30.06 Cartridges. Don't worry about what we are going to do with them as long as he is happy shooting Fish.
Ciao


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:21 am 
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.22 is what I would choose :lol:, may be this guy likes the acoustics..

Im' gonna walk into a fish market and buy a fish instead of going fishing, it will save me a loads of cash of tickets, fuel etc... and I wont have to spend any more money or rods reels etc :idea: :lol: :lol: and no need to clean and wash the equipment anymore after that..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:45 pm 
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Just read an excerpt from "Rod in India" where the author enumerates it as one of the ways of catching murrel :-)
So its a time tested tradition :lol:
Yaj.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:48 pm 
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Fish have been shot, stabbed, speared, harpooned, shot at with a bow& arrow and what have you...Yup, I read that in Rod in India too...time honoured tradition, i guess, only not so open or acceptable in these times and constraints ;)
Axx


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:05 pm 
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Location: Bangalore, India
Time Tested Tradition is not the Question but the use of 30.06 Cartridges for a Murrel.Ridiculous.Forget the Acoustics.Buy a Nice Stereo System and Speakers instead. Better for him to get his Fish in the Market.In one piece,Not in Pieces, if he is lucky enough to find them at ground level, beneath the waters.
Small Fry/Big Fish. ( NOT ALEXIS)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:00 am 
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Bobby wrote:
Gentlemen,

Contradictory to what you all have to say I think shooting fish for the pot can be fun. Some of you guys are probably being polite and going with the flow… :roll:

I say any kind of shooting is a waste of cartridges if you look at it that way. At the end of the day we all spend money on a something that gives us pleasure and if a man revels in shooting Murral as opposed to catching one with the rod, who are we to judge just because we are anglers? A lot of people would think spending thousands of dollars flying down to the Cauveri or to any other place catching a fish and then releasing it is the most idiotic thing in the world, we call it heaven, a dream come true, a pursuit of passion and can find another couple of dozen pleasurable adjectives or phrases to describe the experience.

Remember one mans food is another mans poison. :lol: :lol: :lol: and this applys both ways but remember, no one is forcing you to eat another mans food here :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bobby


I agree with Bobby totally on this.Different strokes for different folks.
Yaj.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:10 am 
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I think he uses a 30 06 because he doesnt have any choice in the first place. secondly i think an airgun would be undergunning and leave a wounded fish. .22 would be a good choice. even if he misses with the 30 06 the purcussion of the bullet hitting the water would kill it.


I would like to comment on kens bullet bouncing theory. if the angle is very steep like when the man is shooting from 15 feet above the water, the bullet wont skip the surface. on the contrary if the angle is very shallow or if the man is shooting from water level the bullet in all likelyhood will bounce off(try that with a pebble) and as ken pointed out gonna hit something.ALWAYS SAFETY FIRST.


take care,


aamir.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:27 am 
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A few of things that seem to be missed re using a .30-06 for maral:

1. A .30-06 bullet would never ricochet off water, no matter the angle. A typical bullet, say 180grains, at 2700fps, develops 2,900ft.lbs of kinetic energy. Unlike light which does have a critical angle at the air/water interface for refraction/reflection, a 30-06 bullet would simply bulldoze through. A flat stone thrown by someone would develop a relatively minute energy, and hence skip. Do the sums.

2. To be able to see the maral in the first place, the shooter would have to be facing the water at an angle greater than 48.6 degrees (critical angle for air-water) else he will not be able to see anything underwater. So rest assured he's shooting quite steeply into the water and, therefore, any stray villager is quite safe.

3. You never shoot the fish. You shoot near it's head and let the shock-wave scramble its brain and any soft tissue that carelessly happens to be present (the concussive water-hammer effect that did in many a U Boat).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:34 am 
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Location: Bangalore/Andman Islands, India
Hi Guys,

The topic of 'murral shooting' is not a new one in this country. I've been on many a river/dam where the locals go after murral with a gun.

I remember some years ago I travelled through Madhya Pradesh in search of new waters to fish and heard stories of huge fish being shot. That was the only way it was done. It was really irritating cos many people offered to take me to their secret spots to try for these huge murral and more often the rivers and dams they took me to had more weeds than water. Perfect murral habitat, snag city, but useless for me.

On the Cauvery I was out with a bunch of guys all weilding their .22's claiming they shot murral regularly. I was quite cool as it was murral shooters vs anglers. I pulled out the only murral caught that session, a 3.5kilo fish that became dinner. Guess the anglers won that round, but we all lost as the fish wasn't put back.

Regards,

Mighty Marlin.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:59 am 
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Hola, Senor MM is back! como usted?
Hey, good to have you back,
Best
Axx
PS-am doing the sums-, 48 degrees it is! ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:29 am 
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mysticmaral wrote:
1. A .30-06 bullet would never ricochet off water, no matter the angle. A typical bullet, say 180grains, at 2700fps, develops 2,900ft.lbs of kinetic energy. Unlike light which does have a critical angle at the air/water interface for refraction/reflection, a 30-06 bullet would simply bulldoze through. A flat stone thrown by someone would develop a relatively minute energy, and hence skip. Do the sums.

2. To be able to see the maral in the first place, the shooter would have to be facing the water at an angle greater than 48.6 degrees (critical angle for air-water) else he will not be able to see anything underwater. So rest assured he's shooting quite steeply into the water and, therefore, any stray villager is quite safe.


Welcome back MM where have you been?
I was wondering what is the minimum pressure that would break water’s surface tension and I was positive the a 30.06 caliber spinning shot would not bounce. Your explanation was perfect. Shooting at a landbased target is definately more dangerous.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:00 am 
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Quote:
Welcome back MM where have you been?

Travelling actually. Had six brilliant weeks in India catching loads of maral. Ran into Mr.Bopanna in Bangalore who admonished me for not posting. Then it was Morocco for 2 weeks, down to Florianapolis, Brazil, thence to Caracas, Venezuela, now back in Texas preparing for a full-out assault on alligator gar. Aim to break the 200lb mark this season.

Quote:
I was wondering what is the minimum pressure that would break water’s surface tension

Surface tension has nothing to do with it. A fly could break that. It is the water resistance during impact. If the resistance is greater than the combined energy of the object then it will skim the surface, else it will penetrate, and from the looks of it, forum members here know all about penetration.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:07 am 
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Si Professore! Welcome back Texan.

Bops


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:10 pm 
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Hey MM - Welcome Back !! :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:44 pm 
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Gav, is that all you want to say here...for sure? :?: :idea:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:54 pm 
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He MM,
did you get it? your mystic marral , on this trip? whats the biggest you got?
Good luck with Gar Alligators
Best
Axx


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:20 pm 
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Is that Gar or Murral you are referring to? And I pray/hope its nothing else doctor :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:32 am 
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Quote:
did you get it? your mystic marral , on this trip? whats the biggest you got?

No, I hope I never catch that mystic maral. Biggest was only 4.5kg but had numerous very vigorous ones in the 3-4kg range. Strange thing is that some waters will produce real fighters, the Cauvery for instance produces milquetoasts. I hooked a fish that both I and my experienced netman were positive was well over 6kg as it was zig-zagging all over the lake and refused to be landed-- turned out to be just over 4kg. Careful as I am, I had my 12lb P-Line broken 4 times in the same lake, once more in another. Every single one was caught on my new spinner, christened by Cauvery Cowboy as the Maral Nano. Don't use Mepps anymore.

Mm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:13 pm 
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Where do marral fight? I saw them give up the fight pretty easy...or they spit out my lure and have a guffaw at me :twisted:

What does the mystic 'Nano' look like? pics?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:26 pm 
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hi Mm,

I agree with eljefe. show us a picure of your spinner. ....please!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:04 am 
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Give me few days as I've left all the Nanos (except my iPod) in India but can make up one for a picture soon as I get some time.
Mm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:26 am 
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Thanks MM,
Can you list materials used and approx size please.I have been spending many quiet evenings making various types of lures and have begun to enjoy it.Will post a spinner I made -it was a family effort-wife's wire bending skills and tools, daughters glitter paints and my lunacy.Hopefully will christian it IA spinner...
Best
Axx
PS-never did tie that line to bait with a needle holder, now am comfy with fingers and lick of spit...see, am progressing.Do carry some lidocaine in my tackle box in case i end up coming home with a 'piercing' -I am a bit old for that one.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:37 am 
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Hi Asif,

While on the topic of spinners (this one very like but not quite), I thought you would find this one interesting, also look at the beauty she lured:

Image

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:03 am 
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Thanks Bobby,
(Credited wrongly earlier!;))
My kinda wishful thinking- a no 8 hook and 8 lb line for a hair rig and lets have some fun...the lead weight for the bolt tied on with cotton twine to aid in biodegradation.
Best
Axx


Last edited by eljefe on Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:52 pm 
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Hey Bobster, please watch the image size. It's bigger than what's allowed.

Bops


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:42 am 
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Sorry Bops, what is the max allowed size mate?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:43 am 
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So as not to hijack this thread I posted pictures, as requested, of my Nano under a new topic.
Mm


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