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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:44 pm 
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Enlightened

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:46 pm
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Location: Jabalpur MP India
Dear Gurus,

I know, I can sense, theres Murrel under water ( its, River and its big pond say 1 kms long and 300' wide), lush of green vegitation on both banks.

Infact local villegers catch by keeping line of hook loaded warms for whole night and in the morning some 1--3 kgs size they get in there hooks.

I am using worm and mutton. with Daiwa Spin Rod, Monofilament line and normal hood. keeping my hook 10-15 foots away from bank side under water. Most of the time i sit after 3 Pm till 6Pm , sitting long hours but no luck.

any thing more i hv to do???

Plz advice.

Anoop


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:16 pm 
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Try Chilwa. Or a frog. Murrels cannot resist frogs. Be careful that you get a frog and not a toad.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:06 pm 
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Hi Finebaba
I agree with Mahaseeken. Frogs are the best bait for sowl. May like to attach a sinker with the line so that the frog remains a little under water. And one more thing. Locals catch more murrel because they go for it during night hours. Murrel, like most predators, are nocturnal feeders. May like to extend your fishing bracket up to 8 or 9 pm. Hope you catch a big murrel.
Cheers
Sualeh


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:37 pm 
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Sualeh wrote:
Hi Finebaba
Murrel, like most predators, are nocturnal feeders.


I disagree... I think sol is an oppertunistic feeder, and it feeds when it sees food...

the reason i feel the natives are catching at 'night' is this...

1) the waters are disturbed and the fish find it safer to move at night
2) by setting out the lines @ sunset and removng them @ sunrise, the locals have a 12 hour window for a bite on a line set in one place, without anyone worrying about his line going missing or his catch being stolen...

Baba... besides trying out frogs (the frogs should not sink to the bottom of the river/lake.. sol hunts its prey on the surface/mid-level), try one of the following tricks...


1) Try using a surface popper/scum frog/spinner, cast along the weeds and retrivedvery slowly... you should get a bite...

2) If using worms, sit quietly and watch for the sol to surface for air... the place he pops the surface, cast out there... he should take istantly... if he doesn't, then let your bait sink to the bottom and, keeping the line tight, jig the bait slightly... do this for a few minutes... if he doesn't bite retrive and watch for the next time the sol surfaces... scream out "thar she blows" and cast out again!!!

Hope you catch your self a nice big sol, get to take a lovely picture and then have the pleasure of releasing it back into the water... (try to get a pic of the locals faces when you do this)!!!

Cheers,
IG


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:22 am 
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The point is that Murrel are lazy. They like to wait for prey or move around weeds, sunken trees, etc slowly. When they notice something they stalk and then attack with a burst of speed.

What you need to do is what IG is saying - Attract their attention. Waiting for one to bump into the bait is cool for the locals, they can leave their lines overnight. So think like a predator and stalk them. When you see one, cast close to it and get your lure/bait moving a bit. You should get a bite.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:02 am 
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Yup, oppurtunistic predators. I've seen IG plonk a worm next to Mr.Murral who was going by with his hot date-the guy changed tack and took the bait with a splash I could see 20m away...3 + kg...sound advice all. Stick to the reed banks and troll/jig/spin Basically create a disturbance and leave a 'biryani trail' that he'll come looking for.You should do well with the mutton-only use some 'neon lights 'and 'radio FM' to let him know its there! Thats why IG and MK catch so many fish...
Best
Axx


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:33 am 
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Fishaholic

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And Turtles!!!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:02 pm 
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Mahaseerken wrote:
And Turtles!!!!!


yup don't forget the turtles... come to think of it, i can think o 2 places where you've not hooked a turtle... i won't open my mouth least i jinx it!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:15 pm 
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intresting thread. Just a question as the Mural or Sol i have caught were with live bait, why frogs and not toads?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:22 pm 
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Toads are poisonous. Not really edible. In fact very few things really make a meal out of them


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:52 pm 
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FineB,
dont use spanking fresh mutton-let it be stale and smelly and green-any animal spare parts will do! smell + movement-chicken guts/ liver and skin are also fine...use pretty big size hooks-1/0 or 2 /0. Murral , I swear, spit the bait out, so if you've buried your hook in atta,(like I did with an atta boilie and a no.8 hook) you better be a very skilled rod man to hookset and land the fish!
As for my story, obviously the Marral spat out the bait-but I've sen marral spit out 5/0 hooks and scum frog baits!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:54 pm 
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Mahaseerken wrote:
Toads are poisonous. Not really edible. In fact very few things really make a meal out of them


Agree... catch them if you see them in the water... frogs will be in the water... toads tend to avoid water as much as possible (but they do know how to swim)... the skin is a good indicator... frogs are smooth skinned, where as toads have a rough warty and mottled skin... (don't go by colour)... furthermore, be careful in handling toads as some people can have an adverse allergic reaction to the venom secreted by a toad... venom glands located behind the eyes near the tympanic membrane (little saucer shaped spot towards the place where head meets neck, visible from top and sides)...

can't find frogs, try grasshoppers... hook them through the thorax and snip off the legs on one side so that the guy can only swim in circles and not make a bee line for the closest bit of high ground...

cheers,
IG


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:32 pm 
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Enlightened

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:46 pm
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Location: Jabalpur MP India
Thanks to you all for best tips.

2days b4 i went to same place by 4 PM i was stunned to see a head like anaconda just besides bank, popping out of water, at first i thought big snake but in seconds i judged it was big head 3-4kg Sour (sol)/Murrel, the head was brown black with 2 big eyes.

Dear all that day i casted 50 times, my hook with some lure fish, then changed to worm and small spinner then slowly taking it out. NO Luck :(

But this time i hv decided to play with Frog tying with hook as you guys suggested.

Also grasshopper seems to be a goo idea too.

Thanks again.

If i catch will post a pic surely.

Anoop


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:27 am 
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Best of luck Finebaba, do share your experience with us if you catch one.
Cheers
Sualeh


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:55 am 
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come to think about it all this talk about Sol/ Mureel being the ambush predator, IN Tarbella Dam built on the Indus River system the enviorment isn't suited to the ambush startegy as the entire dam area is viod of vegetation. trees etc....
These snake heads aren't indegnious to the area and were introduced by the contaractor to the area :oops: . Now they have grown to big sizes 5kgs plus and spell danger for the already endangered Masheer population. But very few anglers have managed to catch to them. Though u can see them off and on roaming the surfaces. What do u think can entice them ........... :?:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:39 am 
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Shahphan, animals are the fastest adaptors -they have to, to survive! We are talking about the prevalent attitude in areas where Marral are seen , here in India.But, as you have noticed, marral have taken over the ecosystem and rule the place...so predators they are, opportunistic or otherwise.Maybe, being on top of the food chain there, they will be overt and 'king of the waters' however, the voracious carnivorous instincts will be predominant...Whats the local aquatic life? besides fish, voles, rats, etc? your best bet would be live bait with frogs,rubber lures(scum frogs work fine here) and for dead baiting-rotten organs/meat?
Ground bait the buggers and get them to accept what you use...Good luck and post pics.
PS I've seen marral being taken on everything from atta, ragi, spinners(Mepps Aglia no 4) chicken skin and scum frogs, live frogs, worm-With such a repertoire, I dont think we'll need exotic stuff.Mystic Marral hasnt been seen a while here, he had posted about his killer lure a while back.He reported great hit rate.Where's the man when you need him :(

http://www.indianangler.com/viewtopic.php?t=597

Enjoy the treatise on ales and other hopped up beverages thrown in...;)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:25 pm 
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What about Derek's lunker lure, hey Jude post a picture of it.
I have seen a murral going gaga over one of these even before Derek had success with it.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:48 pm 
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Yeah, its wierd how no one is ever able to catch any snakeheads in Tarbella.

I doubt that the sowl would be the head of the food chain in tarbella, too many predatory mahseer.

The reason why the sowl is less aggressive in our part of the continent is because it gets to cold in winter, thus they become sluggish. Its the northernmost point of the murrel's range. In fact as Shaphan mentioned the murrel wasnt even found in the upper Indus until it was introduced.

In Sindh and even Central Punjab, where it does not get as cold, sowls are taken on lures quite often.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:39 pm 
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Ali,

ur quite rite there. Murel on lures is quite common in upper Pujab and sindh and many of my friends have caught sol on spinners and other lures but the Tarbela sol stil eludes us :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:27 am 
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Ali and Shaphan,
No worries, we will get them soon. :wink:
Cheers
Sualeh


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:44 am 
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shaphan wrote:
Ali,

...but the Tarbela sol stil eludes us :roll:


try a lil solly/dolly/dhoka (baby sol) as live bait... put it on a float about 2 feet under the surface... hooked through the back... wait and watch the fun after that!!! if the sol don't take, a super sized mully will...

solly should be about 2.5 to 3.5 inches...

Cheers,
IG


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:07 am 
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Absolutely spot on IG, [smilie=coolup.gif] this is how i catch sol most of the time. And again you are right, mulley takes the bait most of the time. The advantage of using dolla/dolley is that its a very hardy fish and can survive the hook better than any other fish. Secondly, remeber that sol are cannibals.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:39 am 
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Hi..

I have had success in hooking murrel with chicken gut..(Chicken intestine/fat). This is one of the best bet as bait as far as Murrels are concerned.

Finebaba, you can try this too next time.

Arokiaraj


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:59 am 
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Hi Arokiaraj,
These guys are right about the murral going very quiet in cold conditions. You will notice that here in the south, we too have a hard time spinning for them if the day is cold and cloudy.
I have seen a spinner going right past a murrals nose in such conditions and it never moved a fin. On the other hand, on a hot sunny day the same guy would chase your spinner from right across the pool.
Regards
Owen


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:34 am 
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Yes Sualeh Sb,

But teh important thing is that we have to plan a atrip to go and get them. :D

We can't do much sitting here.... :-)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:09 pm 
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arokiaraj wrote:
I have had success in hooking murrel with chicken gut..(Chicken intestine/fat). This is one of the best bet as bait as far as Murrels are concerned.
Finebaba, you can try this too next time.
Arokiaraj

Whenever I tried this, i landed up with a turtle :cry: (does it interest you Mahaseerken???) :D


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:11 pm 
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Hi Shaphan, how about Eid holidays :lol: :lol: I will contact you soon.
Regards
Sualeh


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:11 pm 
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Sualeh,
Oh Yes, it intrests us pump house gang allright-we be the geriatric mutant ninja turtles of the 21st centry...we are making a logo soon-Right Ken and Dhruv? ;)

Owen, last trip to WASI, a day after you, not a single murral on spinner or scum frog-Sanjay finally had a hit on his scum frog after about 2-3 hours in the coracle.Cold , rainy and unlike other visits , where it was hot and sunny.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:26 pm 
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You guys in the South have it great.

If I would be able to catch murrel on lures regularly I would give up my prime pastime....catching chilwas on the fly...(at least it lets me practice my casting until trout season.)

Shaphan, little dolas are quite hard to get your hands on, especially in our beloved Potohar region. I heard Sheikh in Pindi sells them though. It would be a good idea to take some along on your nex trip to Tarbella. Dolas are also good livebait for mahseer.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:21 pm 
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Ali wrote:

Shaphan, little dolas are quite hard to get your hands on, especially in our beloved Potohar region. I heard Sheikh in Pindi sells them though. It would be a good idea to take some along on your nex trip to Tarbella. Dolas are also good livebait for mahseer.


Yup, they make excellent bait for mahseer... they are very easy to transport... all you need to do is put them in a mutka/ghada wih water in it... since they are air breathers, they last a long time... furthermore, here in northern india, you can find them in just about roadside/village pond... give a couple of kids 10 rupees each and they will get you a truck load!!!

Finebaba... what news??? any luck???

Cheers,
IG


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:27 am 
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Shaphan, little dolas are quite hard to get your hands on, especially in our beloved Potohar region. I heard Sheikh in Pindi sells them though. It would be a good idea to take some along on your nex trip to Tarbella. Dolas are also good livebait for mahseer.[/quote]

Ali/Indian Gypsy,

Ur rite I have also heard the same and as they are hardy fish they survive being transported and stay alive for much longer on the hook. Will try that the next time as well.......

And on any given day I would prefer spinning to any other form of fishing.. :P


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:29 am 
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Quote:
Where's the man when you need him


What a coincidence.....After many, many months I decided to scan this forum for news of maral since I will be heading to your fair country soon in search of Channa, my annual appointment, and I see my name mentioned!!

Actually, the lure I had posted is now old hat. I have been developing something even better and think I have it. Unfortunately, it uses many proprietary components so I can't suggest how or where to obtain them.

For the gentleman who originally posted, I would suggest using the classic Mepps #5 and stop wasting time with the other stuff. I repeat, stop wasting time with the other stuff. Believe me. Been there, done that.

Regards,

Mm


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:17 pm 
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mysticmaral wrote:
I would suggest using the classic Mepps #5 and stop wasting time with the other stuff. I repeat, stop wasting time with the other stuff. Believe me. Been there, done that.


A mepps No. 5 will work, but so does the other stuff... different strokes for different folks!!! :D :D :D


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:37 pm 
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indiangypsy wrote:
Ali wrote:
furthermore, here in northern india, you can find them in just about roadside/village pond... give a couple of kids 10 rupees each and they will get you a truck load!!!

It is same here in Punjab as well. Dollas are the most common pond fish and you can find it everywhere. It was the first fish that i caught when i was a boy and so was the case with my sons when they started going fishing with me. :lol: I mostly use dollas as a live bait when fishing for mulley, sowl and singhara. Couldn't catch a mahseer though simply because there aren't many left in our waters :cry: (not talking of Simli and Tarbela, Ali).

Cheers
Sualeh


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:34 pm 
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Yeah, Simli and Tarbella are probably the only two places left in Pakistan where you can expect to catch mahseer regularly.

The fish in Simli are usually uncoperative though.

I wonder why predatory fish are rare in the potohar region. Other than the occasional dola and the various kinds of tiny catfish their no decent predators in Rawal Dam. No singharas, mulleys, sowls (maybe a few, but they're probably just big dolas) or even paris.

The mahseer used to be the main predator but theyre almost gone now.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:50 pm 
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Hi Ali...... I think it has got something to do with fishing technique also. Almost all the people that i see on Rawal lake are using charai and targetting carps only. I know of few fishermen who regularly catch sowl and singhara (mostly with nets from various streams in Potohar). Mulley, well the water is perhaps too cold for mulley in Potohar.
You can find lot of mulley in Marala, Rasool Headworks and downstream.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:26 am 
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Sualeh Sb,

I dont agree with the satement of the water in Potohar being cold thats why u dont get mulleys. Mulley is one of the fish that you get almost year around from Mangla and the water there gets quite cold. As for people fishing for carp in Rawal dam, the main reason is that there aren't any predatory fish in Rawal Dam. Masheer was the Apex predator in rawal dam, but the population has thined down close to non-exsitance.....

As for Masheer the Potohar belt was full with Masheer but unchecked poaching, commercail netting, loss of Habitat has killed off the population. The few spots where you can still catch Masheer are Tarbella, Warsak Dam, Chak dara and simbly dam.... Sanke heads are still common around the fateh jang belt in the small nullahs and rivers. You can also catch mulleys and Shingharas in the Indus near Attock, ( Gharayala, Fateh Mohammad). The strange thing is that though singharas and Mulley can be found and caught near attock which isn't very far from Tarbella, there population is non-existant in the dam ( Up stream).

Another factor is that most of the water Reserviors have commercail fishing going on and the contractors and fisheries department release carp related species in these places :oops:

By the way Ali, my boatsman at Tarebela caught a 5-6kg snake head lst weak :wink: [/quote]


Last edited by shaphan on Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:09 pm 
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I didnt say that you get no Mulleys in Rawal Dam because of cold water.

Yeah, no one in Hazara even knows what mulley or singhara are.

My driver once caught a ten pound mulley on earthworms from the Indus near Campbellpur, while we were duck hunting. Sadly I had lost my interest in fishing those days.

Also, has the population of mulleys gone down in Mangla or do they just not like spinners? I caught twenty or so singhara over a few trips to Mangla this year but no mulleys.

Your boatman is quite famous, he's the main guy people hire in Tarbella. What did he catch the snakehead on, chilwa?


Last edited by Ali on Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:13 pm 
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Their are still a few streams in the potohar and salt range that have some mahseer, most are quite remote though.

Chakdara is not what it used to be. Some big Khans even dynamite in front of the Fishing Hut. I pass through their several times a year on the way to Chitral, you always see people with nets and generators, but thats the story with all of the warm waters (and many trout waters) in NWFP.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:29 am 
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Hi Shaphan and Ali
I never meant that there is no mulley in Potohar. But it certainly is not the dominant fish of potohar whereas in areas downstream, every second fish that one would catch on a spinner/live bait/earthworm etc would be a mulley. Please notice that mulley will only be found in such potohar rivers/streams which have a connection with the warm rivers of Punjab. In summers, mulley moves upstream. You can find mulley upto Attock br in indus and you can even find it in kabul river up to Nowshera because the river has warm water but not in indus upstream of attock br. Classic predators of cold water are trouts (very cold), mahseer (moderately cold), and certain snow carps (extremely cold), though most snow carps are herbivores/omnivores.
Cheers


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:18 am 
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Sualeh Sb,

I disagree. In my last visit to Rawal Dam we caught three mulleeys. Though they were very small. And not long ago when the Soan river ( the water comming from Rawal and Simbly dams) wasn't the drain that it is today we would catch good size mulleys all along the soan.

Similarly this season when I went ot visit a friend of mine who lives at the up stream part of the Jehlum ( B4 entering Mangla) mulleys were in abundance ( Colder water and no up stream movement of Mulleys). Its just that its not the most talked about fish in ths part of world as Masheer wwas the king :roll:

Ali I just spoke to an angler friend yesterday ( Quite an Aged Chap). He caught a 9 Kg mulley on worms from Mirpur ( Mangla) and his friend managed to catch a similar one as well and both were on worms. Although muleeys on lures are caught now and then (I caught when about 2 years back on a brass spoon), but the frequecy on bait is higher


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:36 am 
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Ali,

The snake head was caught on Chilwas. Its very strange for a place like tarbella the majority of the big fish are caught on live bait. This year the two bid masheer caught from Tarbella ( 15-17 Kgs) were caught on live bait

I have failed to catch anything on spinning and rarely heard any one catching anything while spining. Live bait is the order of the day @ Tarbella :P for Masheer, Common carps, eels and snake heads are all live bait thingz........

:twisted:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:55 pm 
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Mahaseerken wrote:
Toads are poisonous. Not really edible. In fact very few things really make a meal out of them


Ken,
Have you tried toads for snake heads? You will be amazed to find it a better bait then water frogs. The reason being that, when you put a toad in the water, it continually moves it feet to stay afloat. The disturbance thus created is a strong signal to a predator and the bite percentage is much higher. Try it and you will be amazed.

Regards,

Ali..


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:23 pm 
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Capital idea!! Must try this. The feet moving will definitely be an attractant. Thank Ali


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:17 pm 
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Hi Shaphan, Mahseer is the fish of mountaineous/semi mountaineous area. Its movement is downstream in winters and upstream in summers. Mulley is a fish of plains and its mov is upstream during summers and downstream during winters. It is due to this fish movement pattern that you find mulleys caught from potohar and mahseer from Gujranwala/Hafizabad (remember ahmed anwar baig caught a mahseer from hafizabad). I know people who have caught mahseer as low as sargodha during winters but that is quite rare and we cant say that Sargodha/Jhang is a mahseer country. The same is the logic for mulley. In case of dams like mangla, these fish were perhaps caught in the upstream waters before the const of dam and are now a natural inhabitant of the lake. But as far i know, growth of mulli in mangla is slower than the warm areas downstream.
By the way, mulleys and singharas are frequently caught on spoons/spinners in Marala. People angling for mahseer with a spoon/spinner normally land up with a mulley. This has happened with me many a times.
Regards
Sualeh


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:07 pm 
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Shaphan,

The tiny mulley-like catfish in Rawal Dam are not mulleys, they are another species of sheatfish and they do not grow above a pound. I once caught a six inch one on a three inch spoon while trolling for mahseer!

Same with the little singhara-like tengras. Great fish the tengra, it was my favorite fish when I was a kid.

Sualeh Sahib,

I have a theory that singhara prefer spinners while mulley prefer spoons and plugs. I think singharas go for the vibration of the spinner blade whereas mullys like the rolling and swimming actions of spoons and plugs.

We certainly have to go to Marala to get some big mulleys. I think they'll take deep diving Rapala Shad Raps quite well.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:25 am 
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Ali. In marala, waters are muddy most of the year (except december, january and february). Live/smelly baits work the best, than comes anthing that produces noise/disturbance in the water. Most of my mulley/singhara catches have been either on live bait (mostly dolla) or earthworm or chicken lever etc though I managed to catch a few on spinners/spoons as well. Could never catch anything on plugs.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:08 am 
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Ali,

Thanx for the Info........... I am enlightened :lol: Me and my fishing partners thought it was the mulleys we were catching. No wonder there no big ones around :roll:

Sulaeh Sb,

Point taken but u also or rather use to have masheer in the Hub river in Sindh.. Besides that the mulleys in Mangla grow really fast as well. One of the fishing partners of my Uncle and Father caught a mulley that was over 5ft form Mangla. Unfortunately they have migrated to USA other wise i Would have posted a pic :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:41 am 
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So thats why people used to troll for mahseer in Marala in December. The mulley my friend caught on a plug from Marala was caught in December.

I rarely ever fish in winter, find the fishing to be too slow. Concentrate on hunting...


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:04 pm 
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irrespective of the bait/ lure used, the fact remains that you have to be at the right spot at the right time and the fish will bit big. The question really is as how to locate the righbt spot and the right time as these will vary from place to place :?:


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