INDIANANGLER

I am trying my luck with catala and rohu this weekend. Can anyone give me the recipe for preparing the bait? ie both line as well as the groud bait. Also the kind of hooks, line wt etc that are prefered would be of great help.
Thanks
Belli

I recall Gavin having posted something on this earlier...

I remember it being under Blangalore meet...but looks like its gone...

Hi Dawan,

Use the search button on the top left to look for old posts. I guess you're looking for the following info?

http://www.indianangler.com/viewtopic.p ... ight=catla

Bops

Thanks Bops...this was the one...
Belli

Thanks Bops....

Belli - You need anymore info on them catlas ?? For rohus, use some smelly stuff like rotten cheese. It works goods but the smell..... makes your eyes water

Gavin...I definately need more information, will be of great help if you can give it to me..
Thanks
Belli

Try this
Ingridents :
1) Ghee Residue (Contact a dairy farm who makes desi ghee)
2) Cake (cake waste is usually sold at the bakery for Rs. 4 - 7 a kg. we get it here in Mumbai atleast.)
3) Vanilla Essence

Mix ghee residue, cake and a few drops of vanilla. Then add some some mud..mix well.. you want have to mix water, cause the ghee residue will do the work. Make balls and use as ground bait.

For the hook i usually use bread mixed with some butter... the dough needs to be soft.. put this on the hook a

Thanks Vishal..

I use the ghee residue a lot and is a major ingredient in my recipe.. Have also started experimenting with the juice residue, which is left over after making sweets like rosogullas..

Have mixed this with oil-cake and have prepared a small batch of about 5kgs.. Haven't got a decent catch on it on my first attempt, but my dad caught a small catla of 1.5kgs using this groundbait..
But will only be satisfied if I could catch a biggie...

Ghee is good for _________

Slippery when Wet !!

HEY! GAVIN PLEASE DONT GIVE YOUR SECRET MIXTURE OF `ANTS EGGS`, OPPS IT SLIPPED OUT. THE MIXTURE COULD BE RIGHTLY USED TO FLUSH OUT OSAMA AND ALL THE TERRORISTS IN THE WORLD. AND AFTER THAT YOU WILL HAVE TO USE `ESTACASY`.

I UNDERSTOOD THE THEORY WHAY GAVIN USED TO LOAD HIMSELF UP WITH THE DEO BEFORE GOING TO FISH AT WASI.

Belli,

This recipe is from a Bengali friend. Used it in running water in a place where the fish weren't touching a thing (someone had had a go and dropped a couple of fish back). Just give it a shot for kicks sake....

Ingredients for groundbait: 1 loaf bread (white or brown)
3 nos. sardines out of a tin (olive oil preserved)
1 kg cooked/steamed rice
1/2 cup dark rum
3 cups Wheat bran

Mix above without water till components are mixed, then add water sparingly to make a tacky mix that'll break up after soaking on groundbait area. Shape up into chicken egg size balls.

Hookbait:
White/brown bread 1/2 loaf
Dash of dark rum
2 nos sardines

Mix above into hard paste. Trim crust before kneading bread for hookbait.

To use, sling out not more than 5-6 groundbait balls. Fish hookbait a little to one side of baited swim after 3-4 casts right in the groundbait area for the larger ones.

Got several goldens first time we did this on the Ramganga. Small stuff (best 8lbs), but very rememberable because some local meat collectors couldn't catch a thing, even after we moved off.

Cheers
V.

Those ants' eggs were a bomb, mate !! It could make the dead guys turn in their grave

Vedan - The stuff you have just said is good, but just fyi.. Catlas are attracted to oil.. Thats why the sardines worked.. Replace the sardines with any other ingredient that produces oil, the catla will still take the bait..
Good suggestion and maybe I may even try it as a last resort..

I am the most unlucky person in hooking up cutla and common carp
i am trying my luck since past few months at menchen bela every fortnight i spend about 12 hrs hopeing to catch one

ground bait receipe posted by mr gavin ridge cooke may work out fantastic but the problem is the ingredients mentioned such as molasses is an exise product and not available commercialy

i tried to obtain from sugar factory too people stare when we ask for molasses

tried useing ground bait such as grounnut oil cake mixed with ghee residue rice sweetcorn and rum

ragi boiled rice ghee residue and cake

tried all types of essence and hing

on hook bait bread ghee and rum
hook size #4 mustard tried float fishing too

tried useing hair rig hook size #3 , 4 eagle claw hook bait home made boiles canned sweetcorn sardines with bread and olive oil
tried different locations the area where i fish the locals catch cutla and common carps around 200 to 300 kgs every day on net

may be iam makeing some mistake can some one figure out
regards
riaz

Hi Riaz,
Suggest systemetic groundbaiting of a couple of swims, using the same recipie every time. You need to get the fish used to your groundbait, and dependent on it. Maybe just go there to groundbait, no fishing, if you repeat this on a regular basis it will finally pay off. Since the locals are using just nets, the fish are not used to hook bait, and will be well spread out across the waters. You need to congregate them at some chosen points. We had a similar problrm at WASI lakes, but now that is solved by regular feeding of the fish on ragi.
Try oils cake as the base of the groundbait, but whatever you use, keep the same recipie going every time or it may create more confusion than results.
The molases can be substituted with the remenants of sugar syrup used by sweetmeat shops.
Regards
Owen

Thanks owen
I will try your suggestion
can you pls post proper methods of tyeing terminal hooks

what do you suggest try float fishing or use hair rigs
regards
riaz

GRC!

Right. Friend also specified- Light coloured hookbait for catla and dark coloured stuff for rohu, mrigal, others (The Molasses Mix or 'Maita Mix'. 'Maita' apparently molasses from rice wine/hooch).

Up here, the North Indian plainswallahs who fish lakes and things for carp have a 20 to 40 ingredient list for groundbait, generally called 'Chirai' or something similar ('Chara' in Bong?).
Apparently it's function is to give the fish the heaviest possible shits so that when they're empty, thay latch on to your hookbait (usually bunched worms on a double saddle rig hooks.
Anything of the same theory out there?

Oh by the way, ever used 'Jhoopies' and 'Togies'?

Cheers
V.

Hi Vedan,

Your friend is right.. THe catla is attracted to lighter coloured baits and something that is sweet scented.. Rohus and mrigals go for more pungent baits..
You can use the chara or the flat beaten rice as i have mentioned in my recipes.. The idea is to get them high and hungry. Besides making them shit, you give them a hangover hunger.. (all you drunkards out there would know what am talking about )

I have NEVER tried worms for catla, as the smaller fish would irritate a lot.. And the catla being a very shy fish would be scared away from the area.

Regarding Jhuppies. I have a huge collection of them, some of which I had also taken on my trip to the WASI.. My largest Jhuppi is 16 hooks but I never fish with them.. Just a collection !!

I only fish with double hooks as its next to impossible to catch a big catla of 20lbs+ with just a single hook, unless you foul-hook him.

Hi mr vedhan
thanks for your reply in fact iam aware or chari some people feed rice husk balls for 2 days on the third day they add lots of rock salt to chari which cause heavy motions emptying the bellys and forceing the fish to gulp any thing in form of food

some how i find this a act of cruelty Iwill never practice it

couldnt figure out 'Jhoopies' and 'Togies' can you give more details

regards
riaz

Hi Riaz,
I am no expert on catla,but have seen enough bongs fishing in the east, to understand their methods.

Gavins recipie will work well, or you could make a simple groundbait out of oil cake presoaked in a little water, make it a stiff paste, add sweetner and some rum, broken up garlic etc.

Remember that the fish in the lake have never seen anything like it, so keep it simple.

Jhuppi is a multiple hook rig used by the bongs, which i don't advocate. Catla can grow pretty big, and most anglers use light line while fishing.

A catla with a mouthfull of hooks on a broken line will die a sad death, with no benifit to the angler, so go with a single hook but remember that your chances will also reduce with a single hook set up.

Suggest that you ground bait a spot near the bank with enough depth, and one about 30 to 50 feet away.

Fish one rod with float and a single size 9 or 10 hook. I always prefer hooks with a wider round bend rather than an angular looking hook. This rod will probably bring in various species of fish.

Use another rod for the longer range with a slightly larger hook and a larger piece of lead to carry the bait the required distance and hold it down even in windy conditions. (This rod will probably bring in more of the larger catla as they are shy fish.

Set the drag pretty loose, and don't be afraid to let the fish take a run before putting him under gradual pressure.

On the longer range rod, and with regular ground baiting for some days before fishing, you are bound to get results if there are catla around.

Wandering around the lake taking your chances, will probably be less productive than staying put in the spot that you have chosen and groundbaited steadily.

Drop in a couple of balls groundbait before a session, and repeat the same when bites taper off.
Tight Lines

You can use the chara or the flat beaten rice as i have mentioned in my recipes.. The idea is to get them high and hungry. Besides making them shit, you give them a hangover hunger.. (all you drunkards out there would know what am talking about )
This sounds much better thank you all for shareing your experiences specially gavin ridge cooke and owen
wish me goodluck planning to go fishing on 20 dec
regards
riaz

GRC

Right again. We substituted steamed rice in lieu of chari (also called 'chewda' or 'chevada' out west).
Saw your 'Seasoned rum recipe' elsewhere. Respect, Man! Abovesaid friend seasons his for over a year in glass toffee jars! Lemme see if I can get him on board...
16 hook jhuppi? Brrr....
Riaz- about giving the fish the shits- I'd agree with that. I'd also go with the rumshot in the chara- I'd rather make them Happy than Crappy anyday.

Owen's dead right on non-use of jhuppis. A Togy is something similar except one uses it more for snatching/foul hooking than for fair. But out there, the fish are taken for the pot in a very sustainable way. I guess out there not bagging a fish for the pot would be someting of a slur on the man who can't put fish on the family table, too.

regards,
v.

Like I had also discussed with Owen... I have never encouraged Jhuppi fishing, but the Bongs here fish for the pot and so take no chances..
Owen is also right on using more rounded hooks. If anyone has seen the mouth of a large 20lb+ catla, will know what we are talking about...

Riaz - The catla is not known for its fight. So it will take a couple of big runs only. So dont worry on keeping the drag loose.. Another way of landing the fish soon is to try to big him to the surface gradually. Once he has had a couple of gulps of air, he is a spent force..
If there is anything more you need to know on these buggers, do let me know..

This is the only thread where I can give my most serious expertise

Regarding Jhuppi fishing, my brother Robby has told me that he recently saw a huge Catla of about 30Kgs floating dead in the water, and when he checked, its mouth was full of hooks. This being the case, it probably died of starvation and would probably have been a 40 Kg catla to start with.
The sad thing was that no one wanted to help take it out of the water and find it a resting spot.
So much to learn, so little time left!
Owen

Its a real pity seeing dead fish on shore i found a marral about 4kgs on the banks of bannur dam 40kms from mysore prob killed by dymnamite users and unseen the gills were ripped off there is much to teach and learn

agree on that... Its a real pity !!

HI Vedan, plan to use your sardine/ rum/ rice etc ground bait later this week.I am goiing out on a trip and dont know what to expect-commonly seen are the rohu/catla and the mulley, so there.Pics if I get anything, or rants and raves!
Best
Axx

Mulley will take live or dead chilwa. Catching the chilwa is another matter.
You could also try some innards of a chicken etc, will probably need a wire trace as they can bite through your line with ease. They are not called the fresh water sharks for nothing.
Tight lines matey!
Regards
Owen

Hola Jefe!

Good luck on the SRR mix.
Mulley? Try a Mepps Aglia Long, size 4 and up, fished slowly about 3 feet under. Various retrieves.
For chilwa, size 10 or 12 single hook, baited with atta or worm fragment fished 2' under. Sprinkle dry and partly kneaded atta on the water to get chilwa in feeding frenzy.
Owen's right- light wire leader will be necessary, or 40lb clear mono in absence of wire.
You could fish the chilwa under a float, too- 3-4' under, or use triple chilwa ledgered to the bottom.

cheers,
v.

Hola & Muchas Gracias Vedan,
Interesting Posts, yours...try hard not to miss them.
Mulley, catla and Rohu-Catla I understand is Rohu decked up as Jessica Rabbit Atleast thats what I've been told about the availability of fish and types.Yes, have some 60lb wire trace-dont know why I picked them up, but I am becoming a scrounger since I started angling...will do , lets see, I have a Vedan special ground bait and a OB 35mm film can modified open end feeder, which I hope to use on the fibre rod for ledgering a bit...a couple of fast reads on the net advised not to use mono for ledgering, as the swallow should be smooth and mono can be felt by the fish-braid is suggested. How would it be to use wire? lets see if I can answer my qn next week!
Will use the Ugly stik with a no4 Mepps.I also have a couple of panther martins to go...
Thanks Guys and keep on coming
Fresh water shark?bloody 'ell
Best
Axx

Hi Gavin,
Can you post a pic of the jhuppi please? fascinating, the efforts one makes , to catch fish for the pot.
Best
Axx

Some confusion regading mono and braid there eljefe!
No problem using mono for ledgering, we use it all the time. In fact i have never used braid for fishing (maybe once to try out a carp rig).
The wire trace will be needed but 60lb wire trace could be very thick and highly visible to Mr Mulley.
Could try using a 1st or 2nd light or medium gauge guitar string as an experiment.
Regards
Owen

Read about this in Gavins Post-How is this done? In 'series' or 'parallel' or what? a line drawing would be helpful
Thanks
Axx

If you are talking about the Jhuppi, it is just another painful way of ledgering. It is a bunch of medium size hooks without eyes, that are tied with something like braid individually (Robby calls it parachute line). The length of each hook dangling with the braid is about 2 inches.
Then the whole bunch of these hooks (16 i think) are tied together on top and the bend and points of the hooks all face outward at an even height.

A lead weight is wound around at the top of the 2 inches of braid,and tapped into a barrel shape. The main line is tied to the collective braid end, and the bait which looks like oil cake and smells like sweet crap is pressed around the hooks to form a triangular shape, that more or less takes the shape of the bunch of hooks.

Various types of pastes etc are used on the bait as attractors, and then finally the Jhuppi is cast out by hand rather expertly by the bongs to distances of upto 50 feet. Any more than that and i think the bait would break up as it hits the water.

Casting from a rod seems out of the question for this type of fishing due to the fragility of the bait.

They usually use one of those calcutta drum reels tied to a peg with no rod, and when they get a run, they bring in the fish by hand.

They use the Jhuppi primarily for Catla.

Owen,
I remember reading about non feasibility of guitar strings -early posts of Senor MM, to distinguish him from MM the other...
Great bucktail tying tips and lots of very sound advice from him-wonder where he is-any body?
Hola Senor MM, Como Usted?
Axx

Jefe,

Try unpeeling a clutch or throttle cable (after cutting off the blobs at the end) if you can't figure out actual wire leader. 2-3 strands upto 18" should be good enough for double figure mulley if there are any around. You need to be careful while twisting the ends around a small swivel and a clip-swivel or snap at the other. Try not to solder the twists, it does something 'orrible to the temper of the wire. Wind the twists over with a couple of tight overwinds of cotton stitching thread if fine silk not available, coat with Araldite or nail polish. Clip lure to snap or clip end, other end to reel line. Cast at will, to fish.

Weren't guitar strings prone to corrosion and brittle, according to our Salty brothers? MM?

Hope above helps,

Cheers,
Vedan

The set up Owen has given is what people have been using over the years, here.. However am not sure about other places in the East, but at least in Kolkata various angling places are cutting down on the hooks.. I know of a place where you could use any number of hooks on the rods but this has been cut down to just 3... (Please understand that fishing here is still considered more as a means of getting food for the table rather than a sport)....
Also most places have stopped the use of chick-pea flour or "sattoo", which is the main ingredient to make the bait for catlas, as mentioned in Owen's thread...

Now the reason why people use so many hooks is because like I have mentioned earlier, the catla having a real big gob, it makes it nearly impossible to hook the bugger with a single hook.. Even if you do, you might foul-hook him, which is never a good thing..

Will send a sketch of the 2 hook up set-up that I use... Hope it can shed more light on this topic.

Also regarding people casting out the bait without any rod.. I have not seen this done in a long time.. Maybe in villages they still continue this practice, as they may not be able to afford good rods, but this is not the case here in Cal.. Try bringing in a 20lb catla with handheld line..
You will find your fingers on the ground in a little while..

Gavin for Hand casting Jhuppi just check out Robbys neck of the woods. Almost everyone does it and plays the fish by hand.
Why i have seen 50 lb mahseer landed on handline from Ontigundu and Mekadattu. Bola & Subban were experts at it, and so are most poachers.
Regarding the use of guitar wire, it was only a suggestion for use on a day trip, it would be prone to rust for sure, but it should last a day.

Had a feeling those "Jammies" were up to no good ... Get Robby on there case.. Am sure if they can set up angling clubs or associations, they can curb all this..

By the way how do you cast that Jhuppi out by rod? It certainly can't take the type of cast that you have seen us make with Ragi.

You cant cast the Jhuppi the way you cast your ragi balls..

This how we bongs do it:

You take out the required distance of line from the reel.. Then holding on to the line, you oscillate the entire bait like a pendulum, gaining momentum gradually... Once you have got the required momentum, you let it rip.. You can also cast out. (My Old Man does it and doesn't have a problem, you just have to be gentle) Its very much like the way you cast a spinner "under arm"..

Those who are good with their hands can master this fast

Thats like bowling underarm. Thanks pal but i will stick to swinging out a chilwa!

Yes... But keep your baits within your state.. Dont wanna be swinging them to the Tamil Nadu border

Gavin?

Yes hes back

Eljefe - If you ever get to see OMO (thanks Freddie ) casting out on the Cauvery, you know what am talking about.. The buggers cast out cannon-ball size ragi balls to a distance of over 100 metres.... Bloody thing goes into orbit, re-enters the earth's atmosphere and then bangs into the water with a huge splash, thereby causing a mini-tsunami... Feel sorry for the fish that gets one of the balls landing on his head.. Bugger wouldnt know which side of the rapids he was on

This also answers the question why the Bangers use such heavy duty gear.. Big Balls, Big Rods and small fish

This is a standing joke guys. My rods are cast down river , one to TN border and the other to the Kerala border.
Bobbee says "You cast too far man"! How will you catch any fish.
Dude expects the big fish to be swimming at his doorstep.

.... And Bobby caught a mahseer when he was asleep on the coracle .. But that's a story for another thread (Owen ?? )