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 Post subject: Up North...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:37 pm 
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...is it true that mahseer are taken out for the pot legally?

Rustam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:56 pm 
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Location: Ashok Vashisht, Panchkula, Haryana, India.
Dear Rustam,

You can take a Mahseer for the pot legally in H.P., where incidentally we have all our manufacturing facilities on NH 72, Chandigarh-DehraDun section.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:39 pm 
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Thanks, Ashok.

Although the information came from reliable sources, I was wondering if they had got it wrong.

I take it the population is still healthy despite their removal?

Rustam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:03 pm 
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Rustam,

The population is not healthy but not because of removal by anglers. Its the dynamite, commercial netting etc etc which probably plauges most of our rivers which caused the damage.

[In a different context] There is one stretch of Yamuna in Uttaranchal - upstream of Vikasnagar / Dakpatthar that does hold promise to develop into a good Mahseer section. Its close to DehraDun, easily accessable and the river runs deep at full volume. I will be writing to authorties at DehraDun and will forward a copy to you guys - please send your mails too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:41 am 
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Thanks, Ashok.

Rustam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:59 pm 
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ashokpkl wrote:
Rustam,

[In a different context] There is one stretch of Yamuna in Uttaranchal - upstream of Vikasnagar / Dakpatthar that does hold promise to develop into a good Mahseer section. Its close to DehraDun, easily accessable and the river runs deep at full volume. I will be writing to authorties at DehraDun and will forward a copy to you guys - please send your mails too.


Hi Ashok,
Great to read that you're writing to the authorities regarding the possibilities of angling and protecting a stretch. I see a great future for mahseer/rivers if things like this are done. Good Luck.

Regards,
Mighty Marlin.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:43 pm 
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Location: Uttaranchal
Hukum,
Up North, the poor fish are taken out illegally, too. This in Uttaranchal. Many a 'sporting angler' will release fish only if there's a foreigner around. The rest goes to servants, local villagers and Forest Deptwallahs to keep 'Sahib's' image sweet ("arre bhai, woh sahib to bahut achche hain- khoob machhi khilatay hain- aap bhi khilaya karo."). The rest goes into iceboxes or liberally coated with turmeric and pickled to be enjoyed at home.

Oh yes. Many a good releasing gillie has been browbeaten into getting his fish carted away. This in some of the most famous beats up North.

Himachal has a release limit only on undersized fish of any species, but they do have a stocking programme for mahseer and other commercial fish. Mahseer in Himachal dyng out, though. Look up the Himachal fisheries website and see the catch drop rate......

Cheers, but no cheers.

V.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:51 pm 
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Thanks for the reply, Vedan.

Rustam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:57 pm 
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No probs.
Great to be on board a place reality has a place.
Cheers,
V.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:48 pm 
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Hi Vedan,
If you need help from Foreigners in putting pressure onto local authorities let me know and I'll get a few of us to write.
I for one have visited Dehra Dun and up to Mussorie, Corbett and Haridwar, so know some of the territory, it's not like I would writing blind.
Anything we can do to make local Government take sportfishing and it's impact on the local economy more seriously will not only help you guys, but also make the whole place a better environment for all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:29 am 
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From Poanta Sahib down (upstream to dakpather??) via Kalesar, Tajewala, Dadupur the Yamuna annual contract for fish is tendered - Mahaseer included :cry:

Interested locals angle all the good locations on this stretch and they use atta, nets and 'loops on a potato' to catch & eat or sell.

The license fee per day at Rs 5 is negligible and I doubt if the locals bother paying it..

Writing to Authorities is not the answer, unless one thinks thru it. FOr instance the Yamuna stretch borders 4 states - UA, HP, HRY and UP - each one has either a Fishery or Forest Dept..

I think a good initiative is to commence Mahaseer Hatcheries along all the good river stretches - that's the only way to conserve, I'm told by Mr Ogale of TPC, and I agree because the locals will fish and so will the anglers - so we need more fish in the rivers and all the barrages, dams are causing havoc in the habitat. To create the hatcheries we need sponsorship as doing it thru the state govts will take forever and reach nowhere :?

Alternatively, I suggest that the writing should be done to a Central Govt body as they can issue directives to Forest & Fishery Departments to treat the Mahaseer as the 'tiger' of Indian rivers :-) and possibly intiate pan-india conservation directives for the Mahaseer...BUt maybe this isn't such a good idea :roll: some one may just ban fishing alltogether - right now nobody in the center or the State is bothered with 'Angling/Wangling', as told to me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:09 pm 
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Steve Lockett wrote:
Hi Vedan,
If you need help from Foreigners in putting pressure onto local authorities let me know and I'll get a few of us to write.
I for one have visited Dehra Dun and up to Mussorie, Corbett and Haridwar, so know some of the territory, it's not like I would writing blind.
Anything we can do to make local Government take sportfishing and it's impact on the local economy more seriously will not only help you guys, but also make the whole place a better environment for all.


Steve- many thanks for the offer, am in the process of putting something together, will re. for oinion and poss. course of action. First thing is, I need to find out The One Order Issuing Authority whose ear we can bellow into getting a poper fisheries utilisation policy executed.

Viraj- you're absolutely right about the hatcheries for releasing mahseer fry as a stocking effort. In my humble opinion, I'd recommend a remove quota be allocated for the locals who absolutely won't stop consuming fish. Something like one fish per permit, per day, between 2-5kgs. Rationale-
> Large mahseer are invariably female (will collect references and post)
> Fish at 2kgs of size will have bred at least once (from Prof Prakash Nautiyal's book 'Mahseer the Game Fish')
> Large fish lay more eggs. Leave the larger fish in and you ensure a good genetically indigenous fish that has adapted to that specific water. And there'll be big fish for anglers, too.
> We'll have to breed and release forage fish too- introduced numbers will tax the natural food supply.

And blah...... till we and do it. Or get some one to do it (I'm on a long break right now)...

Cheers,
v.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:25 pm 
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All this is fine talk guys, but unless you have an independent body patrolling the protected stretches and enforcing the law strictly, you cannot expect a change to happen, and no matter how many fingerlings are introduced, they will be taken out before they get to 6".

These independent bodies should be able to take lease on river stretches and develop them for game fishing, the results will be seen in 5 years.

There is a down side to this too. Take the Kaveri for example when WASI looked after the 15KM stretch, the fish congregated in this stretch to get away from the dynamiters, now that there is no more dynamiting(or considerably reduced) since JLR & Bush Betta have expanded the area of operation, and the fish too have dispersed far and wide.
Some of the guides that i have spoken with, feel that this could be a major factor in the drop in the number of big fish brought to the bank in the last couple of years.

So perhaps protection in a small zone would be the way to go, and it would cost less too.

As with the tiger, don't expect the forest dept or any govt agency to be of any help in arresting poachers or making life difficult for them.
I saw a JLR guide take a 15km hike to some crazy town to give evedince against poachers he had taken to task, and he said that he had to make this trip for every hearing, or the poachers would be let off.
That's the way things function in the south, and i doubt it could be much better in the north guys.
Regards
Owen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:07 pm 
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Sorry for cross posting, but on second thoughts I felt this was apt for this thread.

Came across an interesting quote in one of the back issues of Field & Stream:
"... there are many fishermen in these parts who stand resistant against change, who will never dream of releasing a big fish, whose fathers never did either, and whose sons may not have the chance..."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:31 pm 
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Owen- you mean the Ramganga beats where if you've bought the right package tour, you can pick you fish to eat and those for carting away? These are privately administered and if you know the beat owner you can do anything you want with the fish. As do the beat servants themselves.
Private initiative? Who watches the watchers?
Hawkeye- I could begin to weep because every day I spend up there and the way things are, my son is not likely to bag anything worth telling me or his mom about(she's a mad keen angler too).

It's not so bad everywhere, up there, though, and sometimes I do carry on so...

Cheers,
V.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:09 pm 
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Sometimes it just takes someone to make a stand. Several small steps lead to a big stride.
If there was enough interest in fishing tourism and locals can see the benefit of protecting fish because money goes direct into their pockets, there will be enough pairs of eyes to deter all but the most determined poachers.
Environment is such a key issue in all senses of the word. If we don't try to ensure there are wild stretches of river for wild fish to live, they will be no more very quickly. And, although they may not know it at present, there will be no more country for people to live and survive in.

If I have to write to every separate State Fishery Dept; so be it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:22 am 
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Owen wrote:
and no matter how many fingerlings are introduced, they will be taken out before they get to 6".


Owen

That's what I feared and specifically asked Tata Power's Mr Ogale and he said that that's not true as smaller fish do survive in the river and their habitat is shallower water :?

I dont know of any breed-release program on a consistent basis in a river - fishlings have been released intermittently by the TPC and in Powai lake the golden fishlings have grown - but again Powai, I think, did not have larger Mahaseer to begin with..

I figure that some percentage will survive beyond 6 inches and those that dont will be food for larger fish and hopefully result in better plugging/spinning and move the fish from feeding on Atta as is the norm in the beats that are feeding atta..

On the natural habitat - there are 2 points that come to my mind: One, the natural habitat is declining with all the hydro projects and the consequent silting - I understand that silt inhibits mahaseer reproduction, so possibly the river system can handle larger no. of fishlings and second, increased habitation and access to the river are leading to more young fish (less that a kilo or two) being fished out of the rivers..

Please share yr thoughts on this..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:37 am 
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Steve Lockett wrote:
If I have to write to every separate State Fishery Dept; so be it.


Hi Steve

Most anglers are equally anguished at the declining habitat...

State Fisheries, nay most local governments, have more or less abdicated their conservation responsibilities...be it the Forest or Fish. We hear about tigers being skinned, last night the Today Channel carried one of the most painful scenes I have seen - villagers beating a large black bear in Kashmir Valley with sticks and stones and then burning the animal :( :( :( Yes burning the bear alive

Yesterday's Times of India frontpaged the confrontation between the Supreme Court of India and the Central Govt., with the Central Govt counsel attempting to admonish (in a unique & assumed role reversal :? ) the court for it assuming the role of the protector of our environment. Why has the court assumed that role - 'cause the govt has neglected, stolen & lied about the environment

You are a frequent visitor to India - the systemic failure is evident as soon as you land in Delhi Airport :oops:

The answer :?: :?: :?: :?:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:01 am 
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This bit comes from our Wasi AGM held on the 15th of Dec.
It was discussed regarding the proposal of JLR to start up a mahseer protection program (this could include a mahseer breeding program) but that is not clear. This at Bheemeshwari in some of the dried up pools on the banks of the kaveri, where fish will be segregated by size and kept in different pools, and then released into the main river once they are large enough to escape predators.
The induction of fingerlings from Lonavala also came up, and there was a resounding no no that came up from the top brass, stating that these fish were of a different strain and were a lazy lot which adapted well to slow waters. We were told that even the Tata's are unwilling to accept responsibility if things went wrong with the induction of these fingerlings into rivers like the Kaveri.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:00 pm 
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Owen

From Lonavla one can learn the breeding technique - they have succesfully bred 4 varieties of Mahaseer and the brood fish were sourced from Kumaon in the case of Golden..

Seperate Pools, if available, must be tried, if only to demonstrate different approaches to releasing fishlings and maybe understand the impact on their survival rate..

Bhimtal in Nainital also breeds Mahaseer Fishlings, but their efforts are hindered by the typical mismatch between govt intentions and sanction of resources - they net the brood fish, strip the eggs and milt and then sell the brood fish as they die in the stripping process :!: Apparently they dont have the funds to look after the brood fish.

Also, the breeding program is not capital intensive, maintaining the brood is..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:18 pm 
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One more reason angling suffers in India could be that we anglers are too few in numbers and there is not much money to made by states in promoting sport fishing as would be the case in the west?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:44 am 
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Viraj et al,
I feel there may be some mileage in getting Foreigners to kick some ass.
Next year, I'm bringing one of my mates out to malvalli. He is the leading fishery expert on the conservation front in the UK. One of the jobs he has lined up is to see who in world angling NGOs is the best person to help the cause of Indian fisheries.

I have seen many times the tardy response to well meaning locals trying to get things done. Often, I have seen the results of Foreigners trying to get things moving in India, as well.
If enough Europeans stand up and present the case, backed up by expert support, and with the promise of cash, something must surely be done.
It will take a long time for any changes to be seen, and it will take a lot of help from you lot, but I'm sure minds can be changed.

Let's believe...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:42 am 
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Steve,

I'd thoroughly agree wish Mr. Vasisht.
Not enough anglers.
I'm trying to get my vegetarian friends converted to the cause of sportfishing just so there are more anglers and fishing becomes like a visit to the community centre. Of course, age and physical fitness will ensure proper distribution in the mountains, but plainswallahs can come up with a code of conduct while on stillwaters. More anglers, more guides/gillies, more revenue to the local and incentive for fish in the water rather than the curry wok.

Also, I've managed to infect many a local up in Ramganga and Kosi valleys with the nobility of releasing and good handling. Previously, I'd buy permits for them just so I could give them some hands-on training for good fish handling and just plain, good old fishing. Ever since Corbett National Park hiked the permit fee from Rs 150 to 530 per day, I can't even pay out of my pocket to take these chaps fishing. The Ramganga has, for me and the boys up here, turned from a pretty neighbouring girl you could visit anytime to an expensive callgirl, thanks to some bright guy who's all about business and none about feelings.
It'll take an angler in a govt. posish to come up with sane rules.

The hike has been in place ever since the park managers figured that everyone's so loaded with dosh they'll pay anything to just fish. BTW, foreigners have to pay Rs 600 per day. No skin off their backs, but when someone living right next to his own river cannot fish, you have things like grudge bombings happening (latest 4 days ago, Beat No.1) and gill nets at night. Not to mention harassment by irate locals, but having spoken to these people, you get the unwritten between the lines.

Please don't dangle the Cash Carrot by 'promise of cash' from enough upstanding Europeans, find out a way to create more jobs, so foreigners can pay locals and they can look after and fish their own river with pride.
As it is these boys drool over the Cauvery mahseer (for the sake of the fishing, not eating it) and I have to tell them everytime- no you can't fish there you effers, you're too poor to be sporting anglers and it's too effing expensive. Terrible. Some years ago a close friend of mine went fishing on some beat on the Cauvery. He was told to bugger off in no uncertain terms by a pair of foreigners because 'our man has leased this beat for the season, y'know, and you can't fish here'. My friend has never been back. Do I want to fish the Cauvery? Then, I used to say, no. Now, I'll just say- not the same beat.

I guess there's all sorts...

I think we need a Ministry of Mahseer, that covers all these aspects and can overrule everything except George Bush. Maybe we can get him to patronize the Minstry and drop 'nukear' bombs on whoever doesn't agree.

The Govt should just do it's bloody job and pay the minions to keep the rivers stocked and patrolled. I'm sure many anglers on board are hugely generous souls who do drop off large amounts of baksheesh for a job well done, and I believe that should be incentive enough for a govt. fishwatcher. This may also induce a desire in more locals to understand more about the fish and fishing so they can guide visiting anglers for a fee(this is where money'll be more useful than in the govt. coffers, unless it's the fisheries dept.) or baksheesh.

I'm sure I'll understand situations/beats/locations where foreigners have been beneficial if you'd care to name instances- living deep in the foothills with fishermen for company seems to have kept me out of much, it seems.

I'm also sure there may be places in our country which actually do have a coherent fishery conservation/management model but I haven't come across any and to the best of my knowledge, good fishing laws went out with the English. We just pay 530 a day for catching tiddlers...ridiculous.

All eyes and ears,
Cheers,
V.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:22 pm 
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Hi Vedan,
My thoughts are on similar lines.
Unless you can provide the locals with an alternate source of income and show them you care about the fish and their welfare, they will never convert from poachers to keepers of the river. That is how it worked on the Kaveri, and that is how it can work for other rivers in India.

The "get off my swim', still exists on the Kaveri, because there are a some famous spots where big fish have been taken frequently in the past, but that is changing with the protection area to the fish expanding day by day. Now those famous spots no longer produce monsters the way they used to, and anglers need to explore new waters, which most forigners are unable / do not want to try because of the guides or due to the tight schedule that many of them are on, and fishing new waters could mean a blank.
Regards
Owen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:44 am 
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Wow, V & O, I hear what you're saying. But surely, throwing your hands up in the air and saying we're doomed is no way forward?

I'm speaking as a very concerned Foreigner, who has a desire to create something that is good for all concerned.
In whatever way we can, raising profile has to be one of the first steps. To show to people in positions of power that anglers are very involved with the welfare of an entire ecosystem. Actually, anglers may be the only barrier between a safe environment and the complete breakdown of an environment.

I have some conception of the situation on the Kaveri, both with regard to block booking by Europeans, and another tour group, who may finish their tours to fish the mighty river because of the diminishing size of the fish.
Both of those stories I'm viewing from the outsiders perspective, but have real fears for the future of the river south of Bangalore. (Personally, I have never fished it, but hope to put that right next year.) There must be a way to put it right, because it is right. Without anglers, without tourist income (Indian or Foreign), there is no way nature can stand against the greed and ignorance of mankind.

Phew, didn't mean to get quite so intense, but at least we are talking about unpalatable issues, it is a first step towards solving them.
Cash may not cure everything, but we appreciate that local people have to survive, and fish, historically, have been their survival route. We need to offer a different route, and fast...
Everyone involved in these scenarios has to understand that without a living local environment, everyone suffers.

Welcome to the new century :x


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:35 am 
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Right Steve, so we agree that an alternate source of income for the locals which should include them as guardians of the river and this in time will help the fish stocks and bring back tourists (anglers) and finally everyone prospers and then the river goes to hell once more and we scratch our heads and wonder what the hell happened to the best river in the country.
Then realization that too much of a good thing could end in disaster dawns, and that the river stretch that started out as an exotic destination for world wide anglers has finally turned into a circus.
Call me negative, but this is a cycle that will take place on most of the improving waters in this country, unless we know how to maintain the balance and say "we have earned enough for the year, and now the place needs a rest." No tourism of any kind till next season, but we will continue to protect the water even without there being any visitors.

Having lived all my life in this country, I still say that nothing will happen on the ground to make government authorities take an active interest in anti poaching and protection of the rivers, unless some one like the PM or President intervenes and gives directions, and to get that to happen there will need to be threats of stoppage of funds for such projects!
That's reality Steve.
Regards
Owen


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:00 pm 
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Glad to read some wonderful posts :-)

The issues that have been bought up:

:arrow: Too few anglers... :?:
:arrow: Angling fees have been hiked and :?:
:arrow: Steve is a European :twisted: Why didnt anybody mention this earlier :?: His photo and that look - I should have guessed..
:arrow: Protecting the stretch then watching it get decimated by white man :twisted: and urban anglers :roll: versus local locals :wink:

Does this sound familiar:?: Maybe to a liberal-economist-angler :?: Like the debate on allowing Walmart into India :?: Dont close the mind yet.

I think MJ was cool when he sang 'it dont matter whether it's black or white' (maybe the words are approximate but you will recall him breakdancing and morphing and lions and black africans in lion skins dancing around). I suppose its cool to end with 'as long as its green', but dont want to get frivolous.

Post on please 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:36 pm 
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Hi Viraj,
I don't think it matters whether Steve is black, white or green, he has shown more concern for our waters without ulterior motives than we give him credit for. We appreciate the help he is offering, but in reality he needs to know how this country functions.
It is not the white man that has decimated the stretch, it is our own greed for money in alowing the river stretch to be overfished with no closed season and used for any kind of activity as long as it brings in bucks in a big way. If i were a mahseer i would run like hell for quieter waters now that there is plenty of protection in place.
Regards
Owen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:30 pm 
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Hi Owen,

That says it absolutely all.
I've been paddling the same boat, different strokes.
Totally agreed on Steve's concern for our waters and understanding. Also agree re. abuse of rivers for moneyspinning without concern for the well being of fish. Well, things have got to change some time. Up to us to be in a position to suggest when that comes around, great to thrash things out.

And yes, you're right on safer waters in the Cauvery, too. Now that there's more protection and the fish have spread, they'll show more natural behaviour and even up everybody's chances of getting one :wink: . Some of my brothers up North were beginning to wonder whether the expensive beats included fish for rent (for the pic) if you couldn't catch one...

Steve- I'm sure no one's thrown up the hands yet.

Viraj- above posts were mainly for Steve's benefit.
Re. decimation- slack up on the protection and it'll get decimated by anyone, any color, anywhere. Many ways.
I still can't imagine a Walmart at Jamoon...

The mind is very open, let's take it fishing , shall we?

Cheers,
V.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:32 pm 
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To all,

I was in Kullu valley recently where I fished for rainbow / trout on Tirthan river at "Nagini", with no results. The local scene did enlighten me a lot. "Sainj" a prime trout stream till a few years back had been decimated due to a dam construction upstream and no one seemed to have a clear road map on how trout fishing would recover. HP government only priority is hydel power generation and interest in promoting sport fishing is zero. Even at the meeting of "Himachal Angling Association" [HAA] were talking at cross purpose and no road map with time bound results and audits was presented. A very gloomy scence indeed. I pray that Thirthan can be saved and will recover from the recent flash floods . It is a beaultiful trout stream.

I hope bops can give a draft presentation to the Ministry of Environment & Forests pointing out that there are serious, responsible anglers here in India who would like to see dramatic improvement in Mahseer fishing at least in some few spots to start with. Bops would specifically highlight the poblems of Cauvery and Ramganga request that given the high fees now both the places DEMAND [a]sciencitific management, [b] annual fish population audits, [c] regular patrolling for control of poaching & [d] feedback from anglers. We would then get the copy of the presentation by e mail and we would all send a hard copy to MOE&F by Regd.AD.

Critical comments MOST welcome.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:36 pm 
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To all,

I know that we are all sceptical of govt action [inaction]. But we must come togather a large body and get the govt to listen. It is one of the many things which may have to be do but this job has to be done by someone. A policy change at the MOE&F which improves sport fishing would be a welcome change.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:05 pm 
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Ashok/Viraj,
Form an anglers for India -NGO, make the Prez the Big Kahuna and us delhi types gently keep pushing?
The papers with 2 tons of a/d will only gather dust -The paper work to concerned ministeries should be followed up by a group visit to the Prez or Pm and another petition given to him/ them.
Sure, call steve along-I had guys from the american college of emergency physicians come along to petition for a formal , recognised residency in emergency medicine in India...
Best
Axx


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:57 pm 
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Don't have a huge amount of time at the minute, but:
Dr Mark Everard, who will join me in Bangalore from end March is a World-renowned expert on conservation of wetland environments. When he speaks, Governments listen.
Like in India, they may not act, but at least they listen. He is going to assess the situation on the Kaveri and talk to WASI. Hopefully we can do the same for Uttaranchal etc at a later date.

I still reckon small steps come first. I spoke at a tourism conference in Mysore two years ago and got a standing ovation from delegates and the Karnataka Tourism Minister for suggesting that Indians need to learn to stop spitting in the streets and have a litter policy if you want foreign tourism to increase.
Probably nothing has been done to address those issues, but at least it has been said and someone will be thinking about them.

Slowly, slowly etc...


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 Post subject: For the pot!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:11 am 
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Looks like this thread is going overboard and really deserves a separate conservation column!! Bops?
Can we have something on those lines ?
All these are wonderful ideas...And will die a stillborn death if not catalysed asap by all concerned.Which means you the reader and every member and visitor.
What I can offer is as much time as I can spare, while I am in Delhi, to follow, up, call, send faxes, generally make a bloody nuisance of my self, as far as Environment Min is concerned.I will need guidance from the more experienced and aware amongst you to START.
While we can brainstorm and formulate a petition, maybe Bops ( if I read right in a previous post ) can keep us informed of the status of the petition if any, and what help is required?
I think getting us all here under a common banner, for a noteworthy cause , was a magnificent initiative of Indian Angler, we must keep the faith and bash on regardless-2007 is the year!
Best
Axx


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 Post subject: Re: For the pot!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:18 am 
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eljefe wrote:
I think getting us all here under a common banner, for a noteworthy cause , was a magnificent initiative of Indian Angler, we must keep the faith and bash on


Excellent quote. Hopefully, the real benifits of this forum are happening in private pm's all over the place. Personally, I'd like to raise a glass to the future (from an eternal optimist) ... :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:03 am 
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I'm creating another section called Environment and Conservation. Please use this section for conservation/environment issues.

Petition Status etc can be a separate post under this section, this should help with tracking.

Bops


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:21 pm 
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For the fantastic reponse and the separate column on conservation issues.
Ok, Who's first?
Do we have names for a IA-conservation commitee?
How do we go about it? Ideas please! I'm just an ER Physician,NEWBIE angler at that...need help!
Do we go about forming an Indian Angler -NGO ?
Where ? Delhi, elsewhere?
Who's volunteering political clout? :wink:
Petition contents?
Take an appointment with the Prez-He's quite reachable to the common man !
nudge, nudge-c'mon guys?
Best
Axx


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 Post subject: me found this
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:37 pm 
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:? yes this is true. on my last trip up in UA i too found that theres no ethics in few of ours co-anglers. the bribing policy has changed from monetary terms to white flesh bribes what i'll like to call it. feeding the forest people and taking load of big female masheer home and distributing it all across the contryside.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:43 pm 
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They must be poachers not anglers.
Regards
Owen


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:50 pm 
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Quite a few of the guys who contributed to this post haven't followed up on the 'fighting the cause' post. So c'mon guys, let's keep going with the ideas.

Especially like to see Owen and Rusty getting on board with their experience.

Us foreigners can help with experience of how successful campaigns have run over here. You guys are the ones who will need to actually get things going and give any project credibility.

Eljefe is looking to establish a WANI, but I suspect there does need to be a countrywide body to link everyone. It could be based around this site, but who is putting themselves forward to get their hands dirty?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:57 am 
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Hi all,

Excellent thread and great ideas too. Lets not give up.

Owen, all is not hunky dory at Cauvery. Call me and we can chat. I have sent my report to WASI.

I am starting a new thread on saving Cauvery Wildlife Sanctuary so that there is focus on both the rivers of the North and Cauvery in the south.

Bops is this ok with you.

Outrigorsandeep


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:26 pm 
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Sure mate, go ahead. Anything for conservation!

Bops


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:49 pm 
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Thanks Bops,

Check out my new thread.

And if you have the time do come to Mutthatti on Jan.21st and see what we are doing.

United in conservation.

Outrigorsandeep


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:59 am 
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Sorry guys, i have been out of it for 10 days. The good thing is i was able to meet up with Fred in Mumbai and Asif in Delhi.
Thanks guys for the super evenings.
Back to conservation....
As jeen was saying, the Kaveri is not the only river in the south that hold mahseer. There are some very promising looking rivers enroute to Mangalore from Bangalore and many others, but MM told me that he has tried some of them recently with poor results.
The water is ideal, but no protection for the fish (any fish). I would like to see such rivers regain their lost glory.
An idea - Wherever there are dams and power projects on a river, there would be less dynamiting. Perhaps these places just need fingerlings to be introduced for there to be some results in the future.
I wonder what the fisheries dept are doing about such rivers, ultimately one cannot introduce fingerlings without their OK.
Regards
Owen


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:12 pm 
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Owen, perhaps you should have a look at the Fighting the cause post. You need to be very careful when introducing fingerlings. We are looking into the fish that were introduced into the Kaveri, they may be a small part of the reason why the bigger fish are not seen so often.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:07 pm 
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Hi Steve,
I mean introduction of fingerlings of the same species that already exisists in the river system. I am well aware of the consequences, we have had enough problems on the Kaveri. :roll:
Regards
Owen


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:36 pm 
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Dear Friends, :D
I am reviving this thread because of my emotional attachment to many of the places mentioned here and due to my concern for the systematic habitat destruction of above mentioned places. As mentioned by Viraj the upstream and downstream portion of Yamuna near Paonta Sahib used to be my regular hunting ground. The rapids below the forest bungalow of kalesar, Hathni Kund, Dadahu, Dak pathar, kata pathar, yamuna Bridge near kampti fall were one of the best places to fish for mahaseer. The exotic beauty of the surroundings and the great fishes found in the rapids and pools were always a great temptation to me. These stretches are one of the best prospects which can be converted into world class angling spots.

There is an IDEA :idea: for all of you. The local panchayet body auctions these stretches every year on a throw away price to the local contractors who in turn give fishing rights to some locals to fish there with the understanding that they will sell their catches to the representative of the contractor on the fixed price. In turn the contractor sell the catch in the market on good profit. There are rules from the local body as to the size of nets etc but no body follow it. Why don’t we, Indian Anglers participate in the auction and secure the fishing rights of one of these stretches. All of us can contribute to this cause and we can form a local body that can look after the administration etc of that spot. In turn we can give fishing right to all of our members with the condition that they will release any mahaseer caught. We can invite the participation of local fisherman by giving them free right to fish in those waters with the same understanding that they will not catch any mahseer. As per the finance required, I am volunteering the first donation.

What say all of you.

Believe me no government body will do any thing and it become our duty to do some thing for the cause we all love.

Bopanna, I strongly recommend that lets create a fund for Indian Angler which can be used for such kind of activities. Kindly take a poll so as to know the wishes of all the members. :?:

Regards..

Ali


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:39 pm 
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Hi Ali,

It's a good idea and it's nice of you to take this initiative. Just one bit of concern. We have members from all over India and i'm not sure if the Southies will want to contribute to a project in the North and vice versa for the Northies.

What we can do to solve this dilemma is to have more than one place and allocate funds equally to each projects.

I was very impressed with what you guys have at lake Powai and I'd really like to have a place like that, close to where I live in Bangalore. We have a lake called Ulsoor which on it's own is beautiful but is very polluted due to sewage drains emptying into it.

Let's see what our other members have to say about this.

Cheers
Bops


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:25 am 
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Hi Ali

I see you are based in Mumbai - anyhow - Im based in Delhi with a footprint in Kumaon and Garwhal - lets talk and get your project going - funding wont be a problem, there is always a way - believe me - if there is fish, the money will follow ... u just need people with the right initiative and attitude...

there used to be sort of club of retired people in Dehra Dun who used to fish the Ganges and they tried to put in some conservation efforts in the Ganges and Yamuna ...

get in touch and lets see some action - tired of all the talk ...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:48 am 
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HI Ali / Bops,

I'm sure that we can make a start by working towards aspirations for a better tomorrow.
I dont have any issue if I'm from Bombay & working elsewhere. My knowledge in freshwater fishing is limited & till date I have not even tasted freshwater fish (yes surprising but true)
Anyway, to me it doesnt matter if the water is in the east west north or south. If it needs to be protected, I'm sure there will be many others like me who will volunteer to protect.
Do let me know how we could proceed to protect these water.

We could definatley put up some sort of membership (yearly) & have a contribution from people as per fishing terms that we could set.
But the time is now & we have to act now. [smilie=hammerit.gif]

Ali, can you get any more info about when they have this auction or who has to be contacted or how to go about this. It would be a great help if we could get some more details & star working towards securing that stretch of water.


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