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 Post subject: Pavan: My Line story.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:38 am
Posts: 21
Location: Leon, Mexico
Everything which is sold on the face of this planet has some degree of bullshit attached to the sales propaganda. My car runs on less fuel than yours and mine is bigger and faster. Some of you may remember that Rover launch in India. 12 kilometers to the liter....hahahah.. that didn't last long.

Fishing tackle suffers in much the same way. Most ‘manufacturers’ buy their lines from the ever mighty China (some do make it in the US of A - the Mecca of fishing). The actual manufacturer, even if he is in the US, may be making the line for Shakespeare, Rapala, Berkley etc using the same material but a different packing. What does that tell you? Nada (Spanish for nothing)

We started out, as mankind started to use spears, sticks, rocks and dams to catch the fish we ate. Eventually the net. Someone then decided it was more fun to fish with a pole and a hook attached to a line. Thus the gentlemen’s way of fishing with bamboo sticks, bone hooks and plant fibers for the line was born. Henceforth, this lead to the modern fishing line which comes in a nice attractive package, with claims of how it beats the others and catches the biggest fish and, not to mention, confuses the crap out of us!

If one were to check the reviews on major retailers for fishing tackle like BassPro and Cabelas. There are five guys who love a particular line and swear by it, then there are five who hate that line and put it down. What does that tell you? Nada again.

Now that we are all thoroughly konfoosed, and my head is still spinning from what I read and what I have always been told. I decided to investigate for myself. Here is my post mortem on lines, remember this is a crude no nonsense report as per my experience only:-

There are three types of lines widely used, they in turn have different thicknesses and weights.
Monofilament. Fluorocarbon and Braided.

1.Monofilament line: This is the most common line used and also the cheapest. They have PolyVinylChloride (used in shoe soles, I am in the shoe business). They are more than adequate for Spinning reels and also for the ‘master’ with the old talcum power can, who will always seem to fish more than you. The only drawback is that they absorb water, decay over time, and stretch. The water absorption is minor and not a hindrance. If it decays, change it. The stretching however, is the reason why the other two lines have been adopted in USA and elsewhere. Bass fishermen and others who use ‘Baitcasting’ reels with worms, need to be constantly in touch with the worm. When the fish bites we need to feel it to jerk the rod up and thus insert the hook. The stretch in the monofilament line takes away some of that feel. But, for a person who will fish using a spinning reel with lures like spinners, spoons, cranks etc, this is perfect line and there is no need to buy expensive lines. Just get the correct weight and you are all set. Remember, this line has been around for ages and when it came out it was the line to own.

2.Fluorocarbon line. This line has Polyvinylidene Fluoride a polymer which has a carbon base. There is no carbon string in this line, but, the sales gurus had to come up with a fancy marketing term for this line. So, they called a plastic polymer with a carbon base, Fluorocarbon. now we must buy it, or, our entire fishing lives will be ruined beyond repair. (I do know, that, if you eat it you will be on the John for the next two days). It is much more dense than the Monofilament line and does not absorb water. It hardly has any stretch so it is favored by anglers who use ‘baitcasting reels’, who need to feel what is happening at the other end. Because it is dense, the lure goes deeper than a monofilament line. The line is also much more invisible than a monofilament line. The abrasion resistance is very high, so I use it in lakes which have a rocky bottom and other debris which will cut other lines. This line is so invisible and abrasion resistant, that, many anglers use it as leaders, even on expensive braided line setups. But again, the use of this line is not all that warranted except by personal choice and absolute need of use. I use it as the lake beds in Mexico are rocky. This line can be used for spinning, bait casting and trolling reels without any problems. They are also less prone to backlash and getting all wound up (saves time).

3.The Braided Line: Considered to be the king of lines in the modern fishing environment. This is actually Dracon, technical term polyethylene which you will find in your cell phone, car, computer etc. Who cares we just want to fish right?. Braid equals strands twisted together just like a woman’s ponytail. This line is absolutely the lightest, longest cast and the lure does go much deeper. A 20 Lb line has the diameter of an 8 lb monofilament line. It has a high jerk resistance and will not break that easily under the poundage certified. The knots are also very strong and will be need to cut open with scissors specially for braided line. There are some downsides which I find. It is much more visible than the monofilament and fluorocarbon lines. So I use a fluorocarbon leader. God only can help you if you have a backlash or a spool up. The line will ‘bite’ into the line on the spool, so I use a softer heavier monofilament line on the base of the spool then wind the braided line on to the base. This saves some line. In rocky conditions it will not stand to abrasion but, will probably hold on. Now why it is much preferred? Well in the United States of America (sales numbers are picked up for publicity, by sales mostly in the states) most bass fishermen use bait casters, this line is absolute no stretch and gives the best feel for what the worm or lure is doing. Most people are also using worms now for bass. Thus more sales and the sales prices are not coming down. The casting distance achieved using this line are super. However, If you are NOT using a bait caster reel, worms, or at least feel the line with your finger tips. This line is not for you.

Now you can use any kind of line with any setup and it will probably work. You have the rod and reel in your hands, you know what you need best. Do try different lines and see for yourself.

I hope, I did give out some useful information there and maybe helped some new comers. I will continue writing what little I know and help in keeping this dying sport in India from dying.


Happy fishing

Pavan


Last edited by pavanmex on Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:42 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:47 am 
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Fishaholic
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Thanks for sharing the information.... man you can write....... :-)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:55 pm
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Location: Just outside New Delhi
Tathagata wrote:
Thanks for sharing the information.... man you can write....... :-)


I second that. I am out of breath. hahahahahaaha


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:25 am 
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Enlightened

Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:03 pm
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Location: MUMBAI INDIA
Hey Pavan,
That was a interesting post !


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:09 pm 
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Thanks again pal marathon writing :D :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:01 pm
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nice one
thats will sure help newbees like me...........


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 Post subject: Thanks for the info
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:48 am 
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Thanks for the info a very useful one. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:30 am
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Really enjoyed the writ-up.

One think I must suggest to all those who are going to shop on BassPro or Cabelas. "Always confirm from their Customer care about the country where the product is manufactured", otherwise you may end-up having Chinese made tackle.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:59 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:07 am
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hmmmm... i had read this write up earlier, and was very kindly redirected here, while asking for some information on use of leaders.. So Pavan, since you like to disseminate such valuable info... i am still left wondering if one needs to use a leader for monofilament lines, in North Indian streams and rivers while going for the Mahaseers ? Any ideas... anyone??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:31 pm 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:43 am
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Location: doncaster/dindigul,tamil nadu
well vikrambora i have never personally fished for the mighty mahseer but apart from fly fishing the leader would be a shock leader a length of heavier line that might stand more abraision than your expensive mainline... and likewise the swivel, the swivel will stop that same expensive line from twisting as the bait or lure or even the fish twists or spins in the water because twited line is not functioning to its full potential... but as always the most important part of your takle is whatever you have decided goes in the fishes mouth... it you choose wrong then quite simple it wont go in the fishes mouth and as they say in england "you go home with a dry net" so i hope your net gets to be wet soon... tight lines, doug


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:39 pm 
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thanks trancer,

will keep in mind, but could you think of the drawbacks of using a leader? And in case one does use a leader, is the swivel used to attach the leader to the main line or does one use it to attach the lure to the leader?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:25 pm 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:43 am
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Location: doncaster/dindigul,tamil nadu
attach the lure to the leader via the swivel then with luck the leader will not twist... and dont be afraid to think outside the normal vikrambora for example a little bit of fish or even a worm on the hooks of the lure because fish are also attracted by scent so whille a lure flashing and splashing is attractive if it smells like dinner then its even more attractive, dont you think... doug


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:26 pm 
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I don't know about mahseer fishing that much but we use leader in sea fishing mainly as mentioned earlier in this thread to withstand heavy abrasion from rocks etc. i would think conditions will be quite similar in terms of rocks in the north India streams too. so mono or braid it will be useful to use a shock leader for sure . In the case of swivel I personally don't usually use it to attach the main line to the leader instead i use a albright or double surgeons knot (http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php)
to attach main line to the leader depending whether i am using braid or mono as mainline. I use a snap-swivel at the end with leader to change the lures easily and to prevent line iwisting . cheers and tight lines [smilie=coolup.gif] [smilie=coolup.gif]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:28 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Location: doncaster/dindigul,tamil nadu
oops i forgot to mention a drawback to using a shock leader... the only drawback to me would be that the leader might be as much as twice the thickness of your mainline... therefor twice as visable to the fish...doug


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:32 pm 
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good men... thank you. All very helpful info indeed.

Tight lines to you guys...

cheers


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:32 pm 
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well not necessarily if you use a good mono or flurocarbon shock leader specially the clear ones :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:47 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Location: doncaster/dindigul,tamil nadu
just beat me to it i just found this on another site

http://www.animatedknots.com/rapala/index.php


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:40 pm 
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Location: Leon, Mexico
All good and valid replies...

I would use a a florocarbon leader if:

1. Fish I was fishing had teeth...(even use a steel leader in some cases)

2. Looking for tranperency.

3. Fishing on a rocky or abrasive lake bottom or river bed with braided lines.

4. Using a swivel... if I am going to use two pieces of line might as well put on a leader.

So you need to answer all these points yourself and come to a personal conclusion.

Fishing is one sport where everyone fishes different for the same fish!

Good luck,

Pavan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:19 am 
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Enlightened

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:33 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Delhi
when a big mahseer bangs you want the least amount of variables on your tackle.

leaders and swivels add to the variables.

braided lines are awesome for their feel and one has a mental image of the river bed in a few casts and knows where the fish are holding up to strike.

abrasion issues on himalayan rivers are such that the point of abrasion can happen anywhere with the line in the water depending on the lay of the bed (sand and gravel banks) - leaders would play limited role in controlling all the points of possible abrasion but would add another knot to the risk element not to mention a swivel as well.

have seen too many plugs trashed, hooks straigthened and split rings opened to add another element of risk in the game. with big fish there is no excuse ... you put one little element of risk in your tackle and the fish is gone. not to mention that you are fighting the speed of the river current and a million brain cells going off when you get that bang and the rod buckles, reel screaming and you are desperately trying to straighten up your body and the rod and find out where the fish is heading hoping its not downriver to the rapid.

flurocarbons are good for spring time and 50 lbs test lines are now available. usually in spring its better to wait it out for some snow melt or a shower to colour the water. otherwise its just sweating in the burning sand for nothing ...

with experience one learns to keep the fish off hazards and play it with braided line which is way stronger.

never heard of any river boys using leaders for mahseer ...

a 10 lbs on a big river up in the mountains with the current backing him is as good as a 50 lbs anywhere else ...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:55 pm
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Location: Just outside New Delhi
Completely agree with Bagiganga. In the hills it's a toss up between a leader and knot and the chance of getting cut off by rocks. I'd go the leaderless way as I have lost to many fish to knots that did not hold the continues mind boggling pull. I'd also forget about the snap swivel as that last rush when the monster sees you always tests it to the max. Also it is the lazy way to go. It is better to take five and sit and tie on another lure.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:12 am 
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So Ken,

Let me get this right... what you are saying is basically, use a braided line without any leaders etc... and swivel with split rings rather that the snap ones?

Also, another part of question which was left unanswered is... are swivels a must for all lures, plugs and poppers? If not, how does one differentiate?

Thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:12 am 
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Yes and no Vickram.

What I meant was use braid without the leader. And don't use a snap swivel or any other link. just like Bagiganga says, the more knots on the line the higher the chances of something failing.

About plugs. I prefer not to use a snap swivel/ quick changer or whatever you call them. I feel they change the way a plug swims. Also a Rapala knot (only with mono coz it slips with braid) gives the best action. With braid a double palomar knot is the best. Clinched tight you it also allows you to adjust the depth at which a plugs swims.

hope that helps.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:22 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:07 am
Posts: 135
Location: New Delhi/Assam
that does help .. thank you. Some more clarity achieved.... but what is the fixation you have with 9.12 posts... it was exactly the same time yesterday ?? !! :-)

cheers


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 9:34 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:55 pm
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Location: Just outside New Delhi
hahahhaahaha Spooky!

It's just that i get to office at 8.15. Do my stuff and then log on. Running a bit late today.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 9:49 am 
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Fishaholic

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Location: New Delhi/Assam
damn... thats rather early for office!! Well, as long as you have the time for fishng and the family, i guess its all good :wink: . Where is office anyway? or rather who is the employer? Maybe this should be a PM actually... sorry if you mind !! Cheers


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 9:53 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:43 am
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Location: doncaster/dindigul,tamil nadu
ken you have knocked everything out of kilter now...9.12 post....
can i just ask a wee question about your knots ken?.... i dont even know if you have such a thing in india as super-glue? in england some of the big fish people who have lost fish to knots put a dab of super-glue on their knots as back-up... would you agree with this?
i will find out about ?????? 9.12 in the morning...thanks for being a help...doug


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 9:59 am 
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Fishaholic

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Posts: 135
Location: New Delhi/Assam
Super-glue definitely does exist... don't know if the English and the Indian super-glue have same strengths and qualities.. but i am guessing its pretty much the same thing. I was thinking about super glue... but in my experience (when i have managed to spill some super glue onto my hands and clothes !!!) it gets really brittle and flaky when dry. Also i get the impression that it might be quite corrosive... therefore i pushed that thought to the back of my mind... maybe Ken can enlighten us both on that?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 10:13 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:55 pm
Posts: 2142
Location: Just outside New Delhi
Yup a drop of super glue works wonders. I put a drop on all the rigs I make at home.

The fluff up is that you have to remember to get a fresh tube for every trip. As the old one always seems to dry up in the kit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 10:16 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:07 am
Posts: 135
Location: New Delhi/Assam
awesome thats great news.. Fevi Kwik... here i come !!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 4:57 pm 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:43 am
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Location: doncaster/dindigul,tamil nadu
and thanks from me also ken...
the latest breed of super-glue in england is a lot better for lasting the stopper has a long thin tail that you slide back into the top then screw down and you can go back months later and use it as new... cheers again my friends.... doug


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 9:05 am 
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Enlightened

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:33 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Delhi
reducing variables is the key ...

testing of the new stuff in the market becomes a bit of a risk with mahseer, but i guess its like a test pilots job. cast with extreme caution.

some strange stuff have worked but almost 90% of the stuff in tackle bags are useless for mahseer.

all the fancy stuff dont last a fishing trip with the sand, sun, rapids and booze trashing any sissy equipment.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 9:38 am 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:43 am
Posts: 109
Location: doncaster/dindigul,tamil nadu
i remember years ago when i was just starting out in this wonderful sport, i was standing in my local tackle shop mesmerised by the vast array of floats... insert wagglers straight quills stick floats wire stemmed and full bodied ...pole floats in row after row, in every degree of brightness and also black tipped... where does one start i asked the shop owner... he put his arm round my shoulder and advised me that most floats were designed to catch the anglers... good advice that ive never forgotten...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:57 am 
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Enlightened

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:33 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Delhi
Bang on advise ...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:34 pm 
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Posts: 45
Location: Wiltshire, UK
I would assume using braid for mahseer is risky since the abrasion
resistance is very poor when compared to a good mono. A fish running through a rocky area is likely to cut braid off on rocks quite quickly.
Coated braids such as Berkley Fireline are supposedly most abrasion resistant but the coating does wear off in time.
I'd be interested to hear if anyone has used braid extensively for mahseer without incident as it obviously has the advantage of low diameter with a high breaking strain and a great feel when playing fish.

In tests fluorocarbon reputedly has the highest abrasion resistance followed by mono and then braid.
The main advantage of fluorocarbon is that it transmits light in much the same way as water so is virtually invisible, a useful attribute in clear water.
Fluorocarbon and braid are very expensive however so if you are changing line regularly due to damage during fishing it could get very costly.

If you put anything such as a swivel on the line when mahseer fishing you are not only introducing more knots and thus failure points, as Bagiganga and Ken said, but also when line runs around a rock this can catch and cause a break. A big mahseer running at full speed through rocks is likely to find any weak point.

Swivels are useful for spoons and spinners but not required for a plug as, unless it's tangled, it shouldn't rotate!

Andy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 5:53 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Location: doncaster/dindigul,tamil nadu
Hi Andy, its a known fact that sunlight damages and weakens mono... does the same sunlight affect braid? or does age weaken it with the constant wet then dry life that it would normally lead?... because for legering of any kind braid out perfoms mono by a distance... could you perhaps use a shock leader for the abraision or would that defeat the object of the finer braid?...doug


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 12:42 am 
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
Hi Trancer

As far as I know braid does not degrade substantially, if at all, in sunlight or with repeated wetting and drying so you can use it for many years which I have done with no problems. If there are signs of wear over a period of time you can wind the braid onto another spool and you are then using the previously unused section which was below.

You can use mono for leaders with braid as the main line and in fact this is certainly done quite routinely for sea fishing with braid for some species such as conger eel. They don't have sharp teeth but can wear through line so 100 to 200 lb leaders are used.
You have the advantage of low diameter braid mainline so reduced resistance against the flow of the tide but still have good feel in deep water because of the lack of stretch. When the fish is at the boat you have the stretch of the mono as a safeguard against a hook pull or breakage.

Andy


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 3:14 am 
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Fishaholic
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Location: Panvel
andypike wrote:
When the fish is at the boat you have the stretch of the mono as a safeguard against a hook pull or breakage.Andy


Yeah.. that’s agreeable.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Fishaholic

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Location: doncaster/dindigul,tamil nadu
thanks andy, i have some braid on a reel that i first used the day diana died...lol... but ive not used it for a couple of years i might try chucking a feeder accross the trent this year and see if it still holds... doug


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:50 am 
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very well said ...pavan ,...endorse that


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:30 pm 
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Fishaholic
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Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:01 pm
Posts: 395
Location: Kuwait.
its been long time that we are trying our luck with fishing...
with most of the times coming back without a single catch. some time back i though of buying Fluorocarbon and i did (12 lb), though i didnt use it till last week. specially im targeting breams and other fishes such as catfish, queenfish and baracudda to name a few. i usually use mono in the range of 5lb to 15lb.. As against the usual setup last week i took my new spinning rod (for bait casting) with flurocarbon on the reel and started my day and to my surprice i caught 5 breams and same number of other fishes in less than 3 or so hours..... i caught all these on cuttle fish and snails(this were also used for the first time and i caught 3 breams bang on with 3 snails as bait).... im not sure of the success coz of flurocarbon or coz of snails. but i did really well and this was one of the best outing so far as in the number and size of catches.
please put some advice on this.... and for sure im leaning towards flurocarbon as the sucess rate has gone beyond my expectation!!!!


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