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 Post subject: Ali's feeder Rig
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:00 pm 
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Guys i have been order by the master himself to post this asap as some of you guys want to know what is the Ali's "bom ka gola " as some people call it in Powai here are the detail pics and I have also tried to explain the method .

Image
By rajatmukherje

close up of the feeder it is as you can see a simple device of coiled wire around a hard plastic tube . You can use a metal tube also. There is a rubber tube(basically the cycle tube air washer cut as per requirement) fitted at one end tied and glue(the regular feviquick) pasted for strength.

Image
By rajatmukherje

close of the pair of two types of hook one as you can see is hair rig and one simply snailed hook

Image
By rajatmukherje

you take your main line and pass it from the rig as shown and tie it to a swivel on the other end you tie your two hook set up

Image
By rajatmukherje

you then pull the main line hard so that the swivel gets into the rubber tube firmly as shown in the pics below

Image
By rajatmukherje

this is done to create a kind of pull and release effect. If a big fish gets hook the rubber tube helps to hook the fish firmly and also release the line after a certain point (very effective ) and also allows to let line be free of any snagging

pulled out shots of the rig to give you guys another prospective

Image
By rajatmukherje
Image
By rajatmukherje

cheers I hope this explain the famous feeder rig. Please asks as many question as you guys want on this thread
wishing you guys a happy carp hunting tight lines

[smilie=coolup.gif] [smilie=coolup.gif] [smilie=coolup.gif]


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:55 am 
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Interesting to see the spiral cage feeder finding an application in India.
Just a couple of observations that you can either take on board or ignore.
Firstly, it's nice to see an attempt being made to make the rig fish safe (if the mainline snaps, the fish can release itself from the feeder by pulling the swivel out of the tubing) but the fact that there are two hooks rather undermines the effort put into building the swivel/tube release into the rig because there is a second hook outside the fishes mouth that can sick into a snag and tether it until it starves.
Secondly, The rig is unweighted. Adding weight to the feeder will increase the chances of a fish hooking itself on what is effectivly a "bolt rig". If there is a lot of silt at Powai or there is some other reason for not weighting the rig, have you considered rigging it as a running ledger so that there is no resistance at all from the feeder and any little pulls can be detected on a bobin or by watching the line ?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:41 am 
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ken you made a very valid point matey about the second hook which we will look into but I must have caught about six fishes out which three quite large on the feeder never had a problem with the second hook but one would look into it .

Oh BTW like a fool I forgot to mention that the feeder rig it self acts like a huge weight as we put a lot of bait on it which is basically the hook bet in large quantity made out of a thick paste from regular bread and a special mixture of rice,sugar,cardamom and some "chana" you put it in and around the feeder so it becomes like a ball and then you put some on the both the hooks . It quite heavy by the time you finish with it. :D :D


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:07 am 
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In the UK, this sort of setup is known as "a method feeder" or simply "the method". In the US, it's a "pack bait". Similar techniques are employed in South East Asia to fish for various carp and catfish species.

The UK version almost always uses a feeder with between 40 and 80g of lead incorperated into it and a very short hook link of soft (usually braid) material. The aim is to get the fish competing as they bulldoze the ball of bait and hook themselves against the weight of the lead as they grab to hookbait from the disintegrating ball and turn away. Doing the same thing with an unweighted feeder will work but if it's been in the water for while, the ball of bait will have largely disolved and the fish is only likely to get pricked by the hook before it ejects the bait.

BTW, I don't do a lot of match fishing for carp but I did hear of an interesting method using a floating version of this type of rig with the hookbait suspended below it. Obviously, the small fish attacking the main bai ball create a cloud of food and the hookbait is suspended in the middle. This might have applications for some of the carp species (silver, bighead etc) that are generally considered to be plancton feeders. In this case, the fish were hooked against the boyancy of the float and/or the mass of the bait ball.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:27 am 
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intresting rajat daa
thanks alot for posting pictures of fidder rig....
is that a cork attached to the hook? and what size of hooks you are using for this setup.....
and do you use boilies for the hook bait or its the same bait used for feeder bait?
a small observation that i wanted to point out....
this set up can be used in either way self bolted with the weight of feeder as shown in pictures...
or as a running leader if the sweil is not attached to the tube....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:45 am 
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Ken L wrote:
In the UK, this sort of setup is known as "a method feeder" or simply "the method". In the US, it's a "pack bait". Similar techniques are employed in South East Asia to fish for various carp and catfish species.

The UK version almost always uses a feeder with between 40 and 80g of lead incorporated into it and a very short hook link of soft (usually braid) material. The aim is to get the fish competing as they bulldoze the ball of bait and hook themselves against the weight of the lead as they grab to hookbait from the disintegrating ball and turn away. Doing the same thing with an unweighted feeder will work but if it's been in the water for while, the ball of bait will have largely dissolved and the fish is only likely to get pricked by the hook before it ejects the bait.

BTW, I don't do a lot of match fishing for carp but I did hear of an interesting method using a floating version of this type of rig with the hookbait suspended below it. Obviously, the small fish attacking the main bait ball create a cloud of food and the hookbait is suspended in the middle. This might have applications for some of the carp species (silver, bighead etc) that are generally considered to be plankton feeders. In this case, the fish were hooked against the buoyancy of the float and/or the mass of the bait ball.


Hi Ken,
Your observations are very valid in a general sense but every water body has some specific characteristics. The two hook method is safe here in Powai as chance of second hook snagging is negligible due to silt bottom. The carps you target in UK are different from the Carp of India and our main target is Catla. As the hair rig with cork is taut, the free hook is specifically to target Catla.

We also use the floating version and have caught some good fishes with them.

Thanks for your comments.

I hope all of you who wanted to know about the method feeder will find it easy to make your own feeders but kindly make adjustments as per the water body and fish species you are targeting. Kindly make your feeder fish safe and never tie any thing over the feeder rig.

Thanks Rajat for posting it.

Regards,

Ali.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:28 pm 
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Hi Ali.
I realise of course that local conditions call for modifications. I was just getting a bit of cross pollination of ideas going.
One trick that I used to employ when match fishing for bleak (tiny surface feeding fish that can make up a decent weight in large numbers) was to use a home made float they was very light but had huge water resistance (it was basically a stick with a disc of thin plastic on it) and the fish would hook themselves against this resistance.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:09 pm 
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hozefaishaqali wrote:
intresting rajat daa
thanks alot for posting pictures of fidder rig....
is that a cork attached to the hook? and what size of hooks you are using for this setup.....
and do you use boilies for the hook bait or its the same bait used for feeder bait?
a small observation that i wanted to point out....
this set up can be used in either way self bolted with the weight of feeder as shown in pictures...
or as a running leader if the sweil is not attached to the tube....


Hi Hozefa
yes that is cork and it is attached with the hook in what is call a hair rig . you can use either boilies or the same bait hook as in feeder. We prefer the later as it looks like a poetion of feeder has dislodged so fish took it readily . I my self have never tried boilies with feeder rig but as Ali says every one has to modify/ experiment according to their water bodies and the targeted fish species .

We use the tubing for solid fish hooking the rig can be use as free leader too but then then you have to strike at a right time . We usually do it on bait runner so the fish is self hooked with the help of the catapult effect of the rubber tube.
The hooks of size 8 to 6 are used usually but they are all Gamakatstu high density hooks ,
hope I have mange to answer your queries cheers
:D :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:24 pm 
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thanks alot pal
that answers is much more than i expected.....
i have size 6 hooks and im going to use them this weekend hopefully....

about the okuma reel i wanted to ask you one thing...
i have okuma avenger 50SV and it can take upto 30lb of 110m line.....
last time i lost a fish coz drag was not working... as now i have sorted out that problem of drag and now im using 16lb(suffix) and 20lb(berkley) line
other setup is for smaller breams with 5lb mono and flurocarbon......(these buggers are very smart and they dont touch or come near anything that is dangling)
i guess i wont be under gunned....... (i know im on the lower side but i have feeling that i will perfrom better)
its just the line should not be cut by the mighty jaws as im not using any leader (i tried 50lb leader but then there are no bites)
so i decided not to use any leader and now i get better and more.....
what do you have to say.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:49 pm 
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Bro here what i think
if you are planing to use the feeder in the sea i think it will better work if you use it covered with a thin cloth and put some rotten shrimp or prawn mixed with sand and use your regular bait on the hooks or use a small cloth bag with same mix at the end of a paternoster rig instead of weight . this should work for you.

I think you are absolutely right about about them not taking any dangling bait they always go for the bait on the ground if you are fishing in day time try using mono shock leader of 30 lb or 50 lb clear it should work fine the trick is to use a longer leader.

The reel should work fine just balance the drag so you don't burn it and try to control with holding the reel with your hand for increasing the drag if you hook some thing big .

I am not sure about using 5 or six lb line in sea until unless you are absolutely sure of your technique and making sure only the targeted fish are hooked this you can only do if you are constantly monitoring your rod and playing in a water body where your targeted fish are only feeding which i think is little difficult in beach fishing .

cheers and tight lines for the week end :D :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:54 pm 
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The Zen master is at work


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:05 pm 
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rajat da
im specifically using 5-6lb line for breams
and im using smaller hooks for the same....

im not an expert but what little experience i have got im sure i wont burn the drag....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:16 pm 
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hozefaishaqali wrote:
im not an expert but what little experience i have got im sure i wont burn the drag....


Touche :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:24 pm 
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hozefaishaqali wrote:
rajat da
im specifically using 5-6lb line for breams
and im using smaller hooks for the same....

im not an expert but what little experience i have got im sure i wont burn the drag....

hey partner even i don't have much experience I just put my thoughts for you never intended any thing else
if you are sure then fantastic bro cheers :D :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:59 am 
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I FOUND THIS TREASURE TROVE!!!!!!

YEAY!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:49 pm 
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as i always say...single pics say thousand words...will try it out today only....and will ask questions as and where i come across with problems....but thanks for this step by step process through pictures....

thanks Rajat...thanks ali bhai....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:46 pm 
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RajatDa& Ali Bhai thanks for sharing the "bom ka gola ".. Will try for th next blast!! :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:57 pm 
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As this post have been revived, I will suggest that we take Kens observations very seriously. Using two hooks, as shown in the pictures are a big no now. (Every one learns from experience :lol: )

In case one wants to go with two hooks, front hook and a helicopter or chod rig behind the feeder is the way to go.

Regards,

Ali.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:38 pm 
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Thanks for sharing Rajat dada and Ali bhai... which metal the coiled wire is used?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:24 am 
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thanks a lot rajat for posting the pics and explaining it bit by bit..does the hair rig floats or sit on the ground as u are not using any buoyant substance if i have not mistaken..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:47 pm 
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mate the rig it self sits on the ground as it meant to be but the hook with hair rig floats (it has a small piece of cork as you can see in the pics) so when big carp like Catla sucks on the cloud made by the bait particle it gets into its mouth . As ali says now the second hook which used to be on the ground is a big No at least we have stopped using it. There is a floating rig too which Ali has described in his post " surprise catch of Powai" i think please have look at it too for better understanding
tight lines
:D [smilie=coolup.gif]

Arish the spiral is of Aluminum wire which can easily be bend but strong enough to hols the weight of the bait :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:30 pm 
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Dear Basharath and Arish,

Meet me sometime n i will show you the ali bhai;s rig.

Cheers


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:59 pm 
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can anyone please explain to me the exact purpose of the feeder rig because it is a new concept to me.Does the feeder rig eliminate the concept of the traditional bait on the hook or just aids in attracting fish which is similar to ground baiting?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:37 pm 
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U answered your question Ostro ..... :)P


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:55 pm 
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hi alibhai, i was wondering if this rig would work in a canal where the water is flowing. i am thinking of shifting to carp fishing for a change. during the monsoons huge rcc's migrate upstream and gather in a particular part of the canal where there is a header. now the problem is that the water is swift and previous attempts have failed as the baited hook is swept to the bank downstream. there are other parts of the canal which are calmer but the bottom is weedy. the hook gets stuck in the weeds often. i have caught rohus and mrigals from it but that was few years back when the bottom was not so weedy. would like to know your thoughts on it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:26 am 
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Live and artificial baits such as worm may works good in canal, during my first fishing trip I had seen senior anglers using live worms in canal. I tried using konda goli on single hook in canal but it too confusing as it is pulling the line as if a fish is hooked. In every 5mins the goli is gone from the hook and it still pulling the line with same force. I tried rolling back the hook every 5-10 mins and this process i caught my first catch and it is none other than a crab, some of the anglers noticed me rolling back the line with crab laughing at me and i smiled at them :P

Wondering what will it look like if the feeder rig is used in canal.

May be you can try paternooster rig without a sinker.

Regards
Arish


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:09 pm 
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dr aamir bhavnagri wrote:
hi alibhai, i was wondering if this rig would work in a canal where the water is flowing. i am thinking of shifting to carp fishing for a change. during the monsoons huge rcc's migrate upstream and gather in a particular part of the canal where there is a header. now the problem is that the water is swift and previous attempts have failed as the baited hook is swept to the bank downstream. there are other parts of the canal which are calmer but the bottom is weedy. the hook gets stuck in the weeds often. i have caught rohus and mrigals from it but that was few years back when the bottom was not so weedy. would like to know your thoughts on it.


hey Doc I don't know for sure but you can try the floating feeder with a heavy anchor weight. Have a look at the ali's floating feeder it is described in his latest post and instead of tying the main line to the feeder tie a weight say 3to4 ounce or so and behind that have your floating feeder in a free swivel. You first just cast out the weight and judge the depth then putting the stopper to stop the swivel of the floating rig accordingly cast out, The weight will act like an anchor and you will have your floating rig to avoid any weeds or stuff like that. I hope this would help cheers and tight lines [smilie=coolup.gif] [smilie=coolup.gif]

here is a rough diagram

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:14 pm 
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thanks a million rajatda. will try this asap. your feeder rig looks very neatly made. do you make it yourself?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:43 pm 
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you are welcome doc :D yes it is made by myself but if you think this is neat you should see some of the feeder made by Ali those things looks like factory made . See the thing is the bugger is an engineer and i think most of the time he use his knowledge now only to design and experiment various methods of catching fish :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: (On the side he also runs a big company ) :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:08 pm 
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rajatmukherje wrote:
you are welcome doc :D yes it is made by myself but if you think this is neat you should see some of the feeder made by Ali those things looks like factory made . See the thing is the bugger is an engineer and i think most of the time he use his knowledge now only to design and experiment various methods of catching fish :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: (On the side he also runs a big company ) :lol: :lol: :lol:



:lol: :lol: :lol: got to make myself one of these. do you wind the aluminium tube on something to get the coils? would the copper tubes used in air conditioners work?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:46 pm 
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bro its not the tube it is aluminum wire i think copper would be too soft. Take an empty ball pen refill and then wrap aluminum wire around a round surface to make the spring kinda thing then putting the refill inside that spring wrap both the loose end of the spring around the refill and fix it up with any kind of glue at one end fix a thin rubber tube(cycle tire washer tube will do perfectly) this is to get your hook swivel in so that it acts like a spring . Once the fish get hooked it helps setting the hook as well as let the main line run free. see the picture carefully i think you would get the idea as to how to make it. cheers [smilie=coolup.gif] [smilie=coolup.gif]


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:54 pm 
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ok rajatda, feeder rig is ready. :D now what do i put on it that will disperse in 30 minutes? :-) should the bait on the hook and the feeder be the same ?


regards,

aamir.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:31 pm 
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bro here is the million dollar answer we put a mix of ground bhuna chana, white bread and some sweetener it could be even the easily available Chasni of any sweet and couple of elaichi mix them well so that they make a solid yet sticky dough put it on feeder tightly . we usually put the same thing on the hooks but you can experiment all the best and tight lines :D :D


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:04 pm 
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i m realy new with this feeder rig.can anyone tell me how can i add my bait?
or any vedio? pls help me.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:27 pm 
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bro the bait is added to the spring of the rig and set tight the hooks remain exposed and floating the idea is when the carp suck the bait from the feeder they get hooked in mouth by the floating pop up hooks take care and tight lines [smilie=coolup.gif]
Ps this is for both floating as well as ground feeder


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 Post subject: hi
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:37 pm 
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Ken L wrote:
Hi Ali.
I realise of course that local conditions call for modifications. I was just getting a bit of cross pollination of ideas going.
One trick that I used to employ when match fishing for bleak (tiny surface feeding fish that can make up a decent weight in large numbers) was to use a home made float they was very light but had huge water resistance (it was basically a stick with a disc of thin plastic on it) and the fish would hook themselves against this resistance.

Hi Ken ,
can you please elaborate/provide pictures on your rig for catching those small fish? sounds interesting. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:07 pm 
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rajatmukherje wrote:
bro the bait is added to the spring of the rig and set tight the hooks remain exposed and floating the idea is when the carp suck the bait from the feeder they get hooked in mouth by the floating pop up hooks take care and tight lines [smilie=coolup.gif]
Ps this is for both floating as well as ground feeder
thnks bro,can u show me any pic or vedio relating with this,may be it wont be easier for u but it will be really appreciated.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:17 pm 
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If i use cork sheet instead of cork will it be same?what is the minimum wait of feeder?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:32 pm 
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tasdidsiddique wrote:
If i use cork sheet instead of cork will it be same?what is the minimum wait of feeder?
bro with the reference to the picture of the rig posted earlier on this thread please note that this is a very old thread and we have done number of changes in the rig since then

1) we are using only one hook now in the front. The hook length is now 10 to 11 Cm from the swivel and the pop up cork is balanced with split shot to the precise zero balance where the cork goes in very slowly when you put it in a bucket of water and it remain at a length of 5 to 6 cm from the ground

2) No I don't think you can have a cork sheet instead you can have a rough cork ball made out of any bottle cork

3) weight of the feeder is quite a right question we usually keep some lead wire warped on the pipe of the rig to weigh it down say about 4 to 5 OZ

will try and post the pic of the new rig today
:D


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:09 am 
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Here is couple of Pics of the new rig

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I have used a packet to show what would be the position of the pop up on the ground once it is balanced properly with the split shot/shots in this case i was lucky to get a proper balance with just a single shot i had to decrease it's(shot's) weight by scraping it a bit with a hook sharpener file to get the exact balance with the pop up .The idea is that it should just make the pop up hook almost weightless so it can get sucked into the fish's mouth

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I hope this help :D


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:55 pm 
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many many thanks to u.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Location: Kochi, Kerala
Hi rajat bhai,

Thank you for the nice description and i have read from top to bottom and seen many changes in the rig till this date.. i think you got lot more success with this rig, i think we can target carp rohu and catla with rig or any thing else we can target ???

I have a question regarding the final picture you provided here above, after the swivel from the line from hook there is the feeder, so the feeder will be sliding ? or fixed...? how this should be done or connected to main line...

And which is best rig to use

this one:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/228/alisir.jpg/

or the new one :

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/193/img9129i.jpg/


Please explain...

Thanks
Jayadevan
Kerala.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:15 pm
Posts: 527
Location: Hyderabad
Nice Rig, now it more simple to make this one than the coiled one. Thanks again for sharing the pic.

I would like to narrate what actually happened with the coiled type rig. Once me and Basharath were fishing together and we ran out of sinkers. Then we looked at the tackle box and found coiled type feeder rig which he made by observing the above tips, it was all messed up because of inexperience. Then I told him let use that metal coil of feeder rig as sinker :D and we were glad we got a nice little mahseer.

We got something to learn and Im still working on it.

Thanks again for sharing the tips for feeder rig.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:33 pm 
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Location: Bangldesh
found a problem,after sinking some times the pop up rigs lost its balance.is there any way out?pls help me.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Location: Pune
arish wrote:
Then I told him let use that metal coil of feeder rig as sinker :D and we were glad we got a nice little mahseer.


I know you have no intentions what so ever however this part cracked me up a bit!

Regards,
Omesh


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 9:38 pm
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tasdidsiddique wrote:
found a problem,after sinking some times the pop up rigs lost its balance.is there any way out?pls help me.


Tasdid,

What material are you using for Pop ups. Use synthetic cork as it does not absorb any water..

Hope it will solve your problem..

Regards,

Ali.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Location: Bangldesh
Thanks.another confusion!if the ground floor is V shape is it make any problem for feeder/rigs?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:43 am
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Location: doncaster/dindigul,tamil nadu
can i just say how wonderful it has been reading this thread developing
if you are fishing in a river then you need more weight to hold the feeder on the river bed... but in a pond or tank... only a slight amount of weight is required... and in either case you can use a pop-up or not.... mostly we would have two pieces of corn [which can be dyed red as a change bait] the corn would then be buried in the ground-bait in the feeder and as the fish attack the feeder competing for the food they grab the corn then hook themselves against the weight of the feeder ... tight lines


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