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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:48 am 
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This is 4 pages of facinating stuff:
http://www.sportfishingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=43557

In preparation for my forthcomming trip, I've been practicing my Bimini Twist loop and Yucatan Knot and can now tie them both with ease in the comfort of the house.
I think that this will now be my first choice option when I'm pre rigging my gear before I hit the beach.
If I should get cut off though, I'll stick to the Uni to Uni method of joining my flouro or mono leader to my mainline. I know I can almost tie the Uni blindfolded and get good consistent results and to be honest, if the difference in strength between this and the Bimini Twist loop and Yucatan Knot combination had been marginal, I wouldn't have bothered - but these figures indicate that the difference is anything but marginal.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:58 am 
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Hi ken.... you couldn’t find easier knot. :D I have been trying both the knots for 2 hrs in vain..:shock: However I will keep on trying till I succeed.. [smilie=madking.gif]


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:21 am 
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The Bimini is easy as long as you're not fussed about limbs.
You have two hands, two feet and a mouth - use them all !
[smilie=gt-happyup.gif]

OK, so the Bimini is a bit tricky but if you use a simple whip finish, it's not so bad.
The Yucatan and the Uni knot are simple. Which one are you having difficulty with ?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:28 am 
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Ken L wrote:
The Bimini is easy as long as you're not fussed about limbs.
You have two hands, two feet and a mouth - use them all !
[smilie=gt-happyup.gif]

OK, so the Bimini is a bit tricky but if you use a simple whip finish, it's not so bad.
The Yucatan and the Uni knot are simple. Which one are you having difficulty with ?
The Bimini is easy as long as you're not fussed about limbs.
You have two hands, two feet and a mouth - use them all !

- Anything else left to use ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:17 am 
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Great read Ken. Thanks.

Pretty surprising how braid changes character as the break strength goes up. Palomar being the best terminal tackle knot for 20lbs but comes in last when the line is 50lbs. Logic would have directed anyone the other way.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:31 pm 
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Quote:
- Anything else left to use


If you can find anything else, good luck to you.
I tried once but nobody wanted to handle my line after that and it made teaching the knot embarrassing.

Ken. A few of the results were suprising. I've seen test results showing Fireline breaking at 50 or 60 % over it's stated BS, but more than 100% was a shocker. Presumably it's because the manufacturing technology is now established and the line is much more concistent.
Initially, I thought that with those figures and a 50% knot strength for the Uni, I had a connection that was the same BS as stated on my spool of fireline, and that hat was good enough.
Then I started to think about the extra casting distance that I could achieve by dropping down from 30 to 20lb (actually 40lb) fireline on my heavy rod when barramundi fishing. With a change to a Yucatan/Bimimini combination, I retain prety much the same line strength but add maybe 20m to the cast !


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:58 pm 
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Ken, any particular reason why your prefer fireline to powerpro? Personally I found that fireline is almost twice as thick as powerpro for the same lb test. This means a reel holding 300 yards of powerpro would hold only 175-200 yards of fireline of a similar breaking strength.

Cheers
Bops


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:16 pm 
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Hi Bops.

It's a subtle point, but you need to think about qualifying that satement.
Perhaps it should read "fireline is almost twice as thick as powerpro for the same stated lb test". The figures show that the breaking strain for a given diameter is actually pretty similar because Berkly understate the strength of their line.

Fireline is smoother and stiffer than Powerpro and I find that that makes for longer casts with less wind knots. When I'm fishing at night, that makes a huge diference.
I'm also biased because I bought three spools of PP of different strengths only to have two of them break for no apparent reason. I gave the third spool away. The only time that I've ever had this problem with Fireline was with the 6lb stuff that I loaded onto an ultralight outfit. It might have been a duff batch but switching to 10lb resolved the problem.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:01 pm 
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Sportfishing tests aside, we in India do not have access to complex line testers :-) I meant the stated lb test to start with.

There have been reports of fake PowerPro being sold all over the world. That could be one of the reasons for the unexplained line breaks.

Have switched to using Suffix Performance braid. Casts a lot better and isn't too hard on the finger.

Bops


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:19 pm 
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Ken L wrote:
The Bimini is easy as long as you're not fussed about limbs.
You have two hands, two feet and a mouth - use them all !
[smilie=gt-happyup.gif]

OK, so the Bimini is a bit tricky but if you use a simple whip finish, it's not so bad.
The Yucatan and the Uni knot are simple. Which one are you having difficulty with ?


Its the Bimini Twist loop that i am have lots of issues with anyway took your suggestion and i think i can manage now. Thanks a lot ken. [smilie=ebil-thumbup.gif]


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:52 am 
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Bops, you could be right about the Power Pro. It certanly looked like the real deal, but I bought it before the alert about the fake stuff hitting the net and so wouldn't have noticed the slight differences in packaging.
Oh, and "complex line testers" arn't exactly lying about on street corners in the UK either. I think the EFTTA offices in London have one but as far as I know, that's it for the UK.
The suffix line is probably a bit easier on the pocket as will as the finger. Any problems with wind knots or is it well behaved ?

Tathagata, I've seen so many unspeakably complex ways of fininshing a Bimini you might struggle to believe it if you hadn't been searching yourself - as you obviously have. Most of them cause you to give up before you start but I came accross the whip finnish method in a UK sea angling magazine a couple of years ago. Once you know ther term "Whip finnish", life suddenly gets simpler and you can actually find a way of tying the knot that isn't intimidating and give it a go.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:41 am 
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"Whip finnish" Ken my friend its leading to fly fishing... Please check the following links. If you can suggest any other link for the same i will be grateful.

http://www.sexyloops.com/flytying/whipfinish.shtml

http://groups.msn.com/TheFlyFishingBug/ ... 9138253446


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:02 am 
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I fell victim to buying a fake Berkley batch from eBay, only noticed it was a dud until I compared it to a Berkley spool, which was stiffer and thicker (and of the same test). The labels were also identical. So it seems someone is making a lot of money selling cheap monofilament cheaply..

Wouldn't it be less confusing if manufacturers just put IGFA rated tests that are present on some lines?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:54 am 
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Very interesting topic & lots more to be said :roll:

I picked up some fireline (yellow) 20lb & found it to be really amazing. The casts doubled & I enjoyed my fishing.

Strangely enough after 1 trip, the following week I noticed that the coating on the fireline was already out. This made the line a bit brittle & it could be broken quite easily. Was this a fake ?? I usually wash my rods, line, spools after every trip, so why should this happen ? Could it be rocks ? quite possible, but not over all the line that entered the water while fishing.

I then picked up whiplash pro, smoke green, 0.1mm dia & tried that out. I faced a similar problem. The difference here was that the whiplash pro is braided, unlike the yellow coloured fireline which could be seperated (shreaded literally)

Carpernicus, maybe you got the real thing, or I too got fakes, twice over from 2 different sources. The sources were not online, but from angling shops. I suppose berkley has almost similar packaging for various types of superlines.

I have now switched to Eco braid that I have picked up online (ebay) & have been using it for 3 weeks now (keep on checking the strength from time to time) & have absolutely no problem.

I seem to have lost my trust in Berkleys line & feel that its not worth the amount that you pay.

I tie all braid lines with a bimini twist knot.......somehow its quite easy once you get the hang of it.
I use all 4 limbs & the teeth too. so far I have not used any 5th limb.
(Kulsdood, make sure the 5th limb doesnt get caught up while tying the knot :lol: )
I dont know about the whip finish, but to seal the bimini I use some kind of knot (3 or 4 turns) a friend showed me while teaching me the bimini. Sorry guys, I'm not sure what it is called.


Last edited by Keyur on Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:01 pm 
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Keyur wrote:
Kulsdood, make sure the 5th limb doesnt get caught up while tying the knot :lol:


If it does, the best thing you can do with it is to make a jig head-type hook rig for some bottom bouncing :mrgreen:

I have used fireline of 30 lb smoke and have noticed the same thing as mentioned by keyur, the coating on the fireline has considerably gone & made the line brittle.

Now I am using Powerpro of 40 lb moss green & find it much better.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:52 pm 
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This is the method of tying a Bimini that I use. http://www.marinews.com/Bimini-Twist-391.php

Fireline is odd stuff. It's not a braid, so if anyone got braid, it was a fake.
It's a line made up from fused strands of gellspun pollyethelene, which is the same fiber that is used for most braids whether they are labled with proprietry names like dymeena, spectra etc or not.
It starts off stiff and smooth but even in normal use, its outer coating will eventually start to fray. This doesn't significantly effect strength but can reduce casting distance a little, so I will eventually turn the line around and start fishing with the other end.
I find that frayed line goes limp, so it's very strange that you guys are saying it went stiff when it frayed.

As with all gellspun lines, fireline has poor abraision resistance, so if you're fishing around rocks or oysters, stick with mono.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:31 pm 
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Ken, the Sufix braid is not prone to wind knots like PowerPro and casts better than Fireline and PP. However as the tests done by Sportsfishing mag have shown, I find that the breaking strain of the line is pretty close to it's stated lb test. 30lb & 50lb Sufix braid looks the ticket for our usual haunts :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:54 pm 
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Ken L wrote:
This is the method of tying a Bimini that I use. http://www.marinews.com/Bimini-Twist-391.php

Fireline is odd stuff. It's not a braid, so if anyone got braid, it was a fake.
.


Hi Ken,

I was fishing near rocks, but most would agree that not the entire line that made contact with water would rub against rocks. I have yet another reel loaded with the same fireline & will check it out in a rockless :lol: location this saturday.....lets see how much difference it would make.

I am very sure that fireline was NOT braid, but after visiting the angling shops & seeing the latest berkleys stuff available, I picked up a whiplash pro, @ 30lb rated & 0.1mm dia. I'm sure many of you would be tempted to try this out if available. I definately want the distance, especially since I'm casting with 8gm, 11gm & 13gm lures.

Unfortunatley Berkleys line has been a dissappointment.


Last edited by Keyur on Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:49 pm 
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I have been using Tuf Line XP Green Line for last 6 months without bothering to change it. It’s still good and stands up to any fish available in the west coast over the rock. Except the god dammed leader is still a problem. Ken please give me some lead on "Whip finnish".


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:06 am 
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Tathagata. Look up four posts.
The tricky bit is inserting the loop and getting it to stay in place while you over whip it. personally, I just manually wind five or six turns over it and then pull the tag through.

Keyur. There's definatly no braid sold as fireline, but Berkly do sell a couple of braids. From memory, they are Gorrilla Braid and Whiplash.
The only reason Fireline tends to get called braid is because the British angling media got into the habit of calling all of the various gellspun pollyetheline/spectra/dymeena lines "braid" because they all were. The name has now stuck and still gets used for all lines made from this material, whether they're actually braided or not.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:17 am 
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Yes Ken,

I did come home this evening & checked it out. The second spool (braid) was whiplash pro, 30lb rated & 0.1mm dia.
Never the less it is still a dissappointment for the price.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:21 am 
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Yeh, the general concensus seems to be that Berkley either get hings very wrong or very right - and neither of the braids has a very good reputation.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:42 am 
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[quote="Ken L"]Tathagata. Look up four posts.
The tricky bit is inserting the loop and getting it to stay in place while you over whip it. personally, I just manually wind five or six turns over it and then pull the tag through.
quote]

Hey ken, http://www.marinews.com/Bimini-Twist-391.php
Thanks i will try it. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:17 pm 
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was looking up the bimini on the net and came across this. found it interesting and thought id share.

http://www.britishcongerclub.co.uk/knot ... a_knot.htm

for those time when youre caught without a swivel!

regards.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:42 am 
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This is a common knot suggested by Rapala for use with their lures, it enables the lure to swim more naturally.
Why would you use a swivel with a lure anyway ?
Owen


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 Post subject: Abrasion during knotting
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:10 am 
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been using powerpro for the last 8 years shifting over from fireline. was surprised to read about the fake stuff out there.

braid has amazing feel and feedback - a few casts and one gest a feel of the slacks and the currents, the lay of the rocks at the bottom and sandy sections. Casts great and the strength provides the confidence to hold big fish.

the problem with abrasions are real with fish rubbing you out on the rocks to be dealt with by experience of guiding the fish through the rocky minefield and landing it carefully.

the real problem with abrasion is when tying the knot - there is abrasion when the knot is pulled tight - the line has to be lubricated with spit and also one has to make sure that the knot slips in without abrasion. Without lubrication knotting creates abrasion and the knot weakens.

however if the knot is tied properly, the strength of the line holds true.

but if the knot is dodgy and there has been abrasion, then one will look silly and feel stupid for a couple of days if a fish bangs and the line goes TING.

we change knot everyday, test it by rolling the line over your forearm and pulling it till it starts to cut your arm. Any abrasion on the line, make a new knot.

the new stuff out there is flurocarbon and we wait for the 50lbs fluor to fish the clear water of spring and summer. using a 8lb fluro on a didling tackle.

Braid also moves on with smaller dia lines with more strength - more line cap on the reel, longer casts ... seen some new stuff out there 60lbs line thinner than the older 50lbs powerpro.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:29 pm 
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Owen wrote:
Why would you use a swivel with a lure anyway ?
Owen


it was suggested to me by a tackle shop owner in edinburgh and i have done it ever since. he said that it would do exactly what the rapala knot does.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:18 pm 
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Owen's right, there's no need for a swivel unless you're using a lure that's designed to spin - and even then, the advantages are a bit dubious. What you need is a clip and there are several reliable versions on the market such as the duolocks made by Rosco or (my personal favorites) the Fastlink Clips made by Breakaway.

If you're using a mono or flouro leader on a baid main line, you can join the two with a Uni Knot or use a swivel, but if you're using a wire leader, there's no getting away from using either a swivel or a solid ring to join the two.


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