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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:03 am 
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Location: Chandigarh
Tail Action of Game fish – Something New

“Gentlemen here’s something that may just about work on a no fish day”

For a long time now I had experienced this “tail action” but failed to understand / read about it. I had heard that Mahseer kill chilwas with a smash of the tail after rounding them up. I saw this numerous times. That was the furtherest I got.
When we began to use braided line with near zero stretch –our contact and feel of the lure in water while spinning improved. It was then that I found many a time a distinct hit but not a take. The lure would be displaced slightly from the main line. The first time it happened –it was 4 in the morning and I was using a fluorescent Little Cleo spoon ¾ oz. My instinct told me it was a strike by the fish for fluorescent lures were never used in that water and the Mahseer would not touch / swallow something that was strange. Its like U and Me – we would prefer to first kick something unfamiliar than to touch it with our hand. This happened 3 times that early morning.
This Spring/Summer’s fishing brought in more awakening on the subject. Strategy used was---On a ‘No Fish Day’ irritate gamefish when they are not taking and you know that they are there and as u pass them again and again, they will hit out at what irritates them .A good way to irritate is to use rattlers (in this case it was rattlers with a heavy rattle sound)and run it again and again in the same area. Lures with e chip / those which emit electrical signals will I suppose also work similarly –I have not tried these as yet.
The results were good. Five mahseer were hooked from one particular spot when 3 rods in that area produced nothing that day. Out of these five, three were tail hooked. They were all under 1 Kg. On another day we got a grass carp 8 Kg’s and another time a silver Carp over 10 Kgs. These were both tail hooked.
Please do not confuse this with the “Khitcha” method where u drag trebles in the water to hook unwary or ground dwelling fish. Also vertical false hooking for Katla as is done in Bengal is different.
Spoons that produce a clicking sound(eg Dardevle clicker and Kuusamo) Spinners that produce a burr(eg Blue fox vibrax) and crankbaits with a propeller should work well in this technique .
I thought I’ll share my this years experience –Hope this works for you aswell –Till then
Tight Lines and Cheers :D
Ham


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:58 am 
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Hey Hammer,

Quote:
Also vertical false hooking for Katla as is done in Bengal is different.


When was the last time u fished in Bengal :?: Or have you ever fished in Bengal :?: :?:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:27 am 
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Hey Ham!

can you shed some light on carp taking plugs and spoons. I have not seen or read about this anywhere. But a couple of guys at Bhakra told me they catch carp regularly on their artificials.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:00 pm 
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Yeah Ham
[quote]can you shed some light on carp taking plugs and spoons. I have not seen or read about this anywhere. But a couple of guys at Bhakra told me they catch carp regularly on their artificials.

It would be a clasic rvelation, Carp taking spoons and spinners?????????


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:28 pm 
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Hi Gavin,
I was there posted in New Jalpaiguri /Siliguri in '78 and thats where I fished and saw how the bengal people caught the Katla .Unfortunately since I had to be on duty and time available was less I could not devote much time to this but understood how they got to the shy katla.
I later fished for katla here in Chandigarh Lake and with good results. There are some real big ones here in this lake but I have caught one of max wt about 4 kg's.
Some day we will fish the katla again -it fascinates me.
Cheers...Ham


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 Post subject: carp taking spoons/plugs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:47 pm 
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This season we got 2 fish on a plug.One was a gid -1/2 kg size and it was a proper take.It came on a bomber 7A Lure in may 07.The second was a grass carp size 8 kgs, it was a proper take and came on Rapala CD7 again in May 07. You have to wait for the water level to go below the grass level. Your lures must be small in size - carps are shy and not as aggressive as the Mahseer.I recommend Little Croc by Luhr Jensen.Colour : silver is a little more effective than the Gold. You will know you are on to a carp when in her first run she will halt and run about 3 times.She generally runs straight down.2 of my friends got this massive fish ,played it for 1-1/2 hrs and got into a boat and went after it and finally lost it .Never got to see it.I understand now that It was a grass carp.Lure was little Cleo 3/8 oz colour silver.
Apr May is the best to fish for Carp on Lures as food shortage takes it away from its normal food.
Hope this helps
Ham


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:53 pm 
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Before U take on to this thread strongly about carp taking lures - be rest assured that it is not common.Some/long time back when the Jet Boat Area in Bhakra was lesser visited by anglers -carps there would take lures and even do so when trolled -they would take.This is no longer so.
U may like to try Barseen in Apr or May.I feel it will work
Ham


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:10 pm 
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Ham,

I do agree with you that in areas where there is a scarcity of the staple diet, fish do change there eating habbits............... Here in Pakistan in Tarbella dam built on the Indus River Common Carp have evolved into predators. I have caught them on live bait ( Chilwas/ Luriya) and I have seen people catch them on dead bait pieces of Chilwas in winters... But haven't managed to hook one on a spinner or while trolling. Probably should work in the breeding season.

Will give it a try!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:56 pm 
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Thanks on the update Hammer... Much appreciated..
The method you talk about has nearly stopped.. Most of the angling clubs here have resorted to "some" rules and regulations, and do the fishing is a lot better than it used to be..

Looking forward to fishing with you for them Katlas..


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:29 pm 
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Hi Hamdhingra
This is quite a revealing input. I recall once foul hooking a soul of 1 kg in the tail and always wondered how did it happen. I was moving the lure (Bluefox Vibrax #2) quite slow so there were no chances of 'khitch' also. But the point is can you plan catching a fish using this tail action technique or it will always be coincidental?
Secondly about grass carp taking an artificial lure, thats really amazing. Out of all carps, grass carp is least expected to become carnivorous/omnivorous. I know of common carps (gulfam) regularly taking earthworms and some times, even livebaits (as mentioned by Shaphan) and artificial lures. Rohu and mori also take earthworms sometimes. But grass carp taking an artificial lure is a revealition. Thanks for the input mate.
Cheers
Sualeh


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:30 pm 
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Hi Sualeh
Quote -'Out of all carps, grass carp is least expected to become carnivorous/omnivorous.'
Now this is absolutelt right.I bought one freshly caught grass carp and dissected her and opened up all of her intestinal tract and saw her digestion process.She is a pure veg with a long intestine and thus least likely .All the same grass carps have been taking lures .The unfortunate was that people who caught them were hush hush.
Secondly , I will go further , my visualisation is that the fish follow the lure at an angle coming closer but keeping a cautious distance and there are 2 or more of them and then one of them hits out with its tail.
You just have to iritate them but do not scare them and I found that with the Yo Zuri Rattle N Vibe ( Which has a fine rattle) they tend to get scared.
Bye ,Cheers...Ham


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:32 pm 
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Gavin,
it would be wonderful to fish together. It was there that they taught me the importance of ant eggs, and Wasp grub . these are not used at all here in the North.
Cheers...Ham


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:31 pm 
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Hi Hamdhingra
Ant eggs and wasp grub!!!! never used them. are they really effective and what is the technique. Can you please describe it for me. Thanks.
Cheers
Sualeh


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:23 am 
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Sualeh,
though I have little used this I will explain.
Wasp's nest has these wasp grubs which have not fully matured. They move a little. Carefully take out 2-3 of them by peeling the wasps nest from the side.Use a no 6 or 8 hook to hook them so that they remain more or less horizontal when in water.Float Fish.
For Ants eggs - the most common method was to use earthworms on the hook and dip this earthworm into round box (about condenced milk tin size) and move it 2-3 times in a circular manner.The ant eggs stick on.
Maybe this is a natural diet and thus more effective.
Hope this helps
Cheers...Ham


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:46 am 
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Hi Hammy,
Interesting thread.
I have caught a few carnatic carp on mepps spinners while looking for murral, and most of them were caught in the mouth. There was another small very lively black silky looking fish that took to my spinner. I forget its name, but do remember it having a long pointed dorsal fin. The point is that carp do take lures. However grass carp on lures is a new one to me.
I have been searching for a bait for our grass carp. They don't seem to want to touch anything, but yet they are around in large numbers.
Any ideas on other baits and presentation methods for grass carp ?
Regards
Owen


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:16 am 
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Owen , they should take fly.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:21 am 
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Dimly recall reading about the tail flick of a fish when its curious, now this correlation is a revelation.
I tried ground baiting for grass carp in WASI lake last week-major activity, but no takes!
However, the PHG has had hooksets on grass carp with - earhworm -regularly! 1-2 kg range.someone forgot to tell them they are herbivorous? I've had a couple of hook ups with bread/gur/coconut oil/vanilla hook bait.Again small ones
Where on earth can I get ants eggs, without becoming an entemologist ??


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:16 pm 
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There is a South American Catfish that always hits the baitfish with the tail so much that 90% of the time they are hooked they are hooked in the tail.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:45 pm 
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Hi Hamdhingra
Thanks for information on ant eggs/wasps. May try this but these are the kind of baits that are not always readily available. Interestingly, today morning my son caught one common carp (around 1 kg) and a grass carp (around 1/2 kg) with earth worms. But we are yet to experience a grass carp taking spinner.

Cheers

Sualeh


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:36 pm 
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Hi Owen,
It is coming strongly to me that we can have success with grass carp if we use a combination of vegetation and sone kind of living organism in it. 'Barsin' should do well for the grass part and the american red earthworm(I breed these at home) should be put alternately or then tied with a fine thread to the hook. The contents in the grass carp showed a lot of cellulose - so we may find dry/wetted toori (wheat stock)to be better.Dry if we want the set up to float.
One day or the other we are going to get them
Hamdhingra


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 Post subject: Maggots
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:54 pm 
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Gentlemen,
has anyone ever tried maggots,they are a natural part of rotting vegetation /dead animals in the water and thus may turn out to be the best.But I feel they should be presented with some natural vegetation.
they are easy to breed. Take 3-4 chicken livers-put them in a handi (earthen pot) put outside at a height. Blow flies do their job and in 3 days u can see them baby maggots . Smell terrible. All of it should be moist and not wet. In 10 days they mature. Put in a handful of bran or porridge or bird seed (anything small and coarse).They move through it and their skin is done tough and slimy element disappears
They may be a good substitute for wasp grubs. I have forgotten how to stop them from becoming flies –will someone throw some light on this
Tight Lines
Hamdhingra


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:31 am 
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Ham, to stop them from becoming flies, you would have to freeze them. This however will kill the maggots.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:32 am 
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Hi there people,

About them grass carp. Has anyone tried the soft center of a banana tree. I was told that this is good bait. It floats so the fish take it from the surface adding to the excitement. But I guess you would have to bait the area extensively first and get them feeding.

cheers


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:25 am 
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we should try it out at Bhakra for there is a sizeable population of grass carp there - whats more to it is that since the slopes are steep we can observe them feed.we will have to wait till water level goes down.
Till then lets think of even better ways.
Ham :-)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:34 am 
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This is one informative thread


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:42 am 
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We feed the grass carps banana leaf and the trunk as well. When it is raining and the water level of the pond rises, the grass carps can be seen trying to take the grass leafs on the bank.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:48 pm 
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Yes we see them regularly eating the tips of grass, but sometimes i wonder whether they are aiming for insects sitting on the grass.
Do banana stems float unaided Apoo ?
Anyone have any info on the size and type of hooks suitable for grass carp fishing ?
Henceforth I plan to do some serious grass carp fishing at the lakes.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:04 pm 
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Banana stems float unaided. And they sit like icebergs with most of their body underwater.

Another couple of baits I have been told about are bamboo shoots, small tomatoes and spinach (palak) leaves. Again you have to get the fish feeding confidently on them before you can put in the hooks.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:38 pm 
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Mmmmm sounds interesting.
In case you guys wonder why i am all excited about this, here's a reminder of what the WASI lakes hold. This picture has beenposted before.

Image

It was caught a couple of years back by Pratap, and this grassy's mom and dad still live there. Never heard of a grassy taken from the lake thereafter :shock:

******** Picture resized according to forum rules :evil: *******


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:08 pm 
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That is a great big Amur or Grass carp.

What did he get caught on? What tackle? ??? Find out Owen, please.

Heard they fight real well. Bhakra is full of them, some so big you just hope you never hook one.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:19 pm 
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Sorry Bops, i thought the size seemed OK


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:21 pm 
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Mahaseerken wrote:
That is a great big Amur or Grass carp.

What did he get caught on? What tackle? ??? Find out Owen, please.

Heard they fight real well. Bhakra is full of them, some so big you just hope you never hook one.

This one is a mystery fish mate.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:29 pm 
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If I may venture:
Last time I saw Pratap in action, he was using sub no 4 hooks , probably 8-10 and 15lb line, and....RAGI That was a 9kg Rohu then!!
Knowing Pratap, he could use a safety pin and my pajama drawstring and land himself a 15kg Rohu...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:35 pm 
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Possible with a rohu asif, but not having caught a decent grass carp, the bait is what intrigues me.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:06 pm 
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Mahaseerken –u are nearly there and the grass carps are sooner or later on your hook. I am also planning to fish for Grass carp. Seeing their eating habits I feel they kind of nibble more than gulp . I would not agree to the banana core/leaves unless we are capable of leaving this stuff there in plenty for about 15 days. Tomatoes and also palak - there is something like palak which grows above Bhagwans Dhaba. What I feel is that we should use that grass below which the water has fallen and that is what the G Carp would have feasted on last. Maybe we require a bubble float with 1 ft of line ahead. I would use Gamakatsu Octopus hooks –they are v light and sturdy and the size I have is 3/0 .
I am still on to a few blades of fresh grass – and in them a dangling small worm.
I have even thought of rotten vegetation and v small worms in it –and they will be bundled in bandage gauze which was a part of the container where the veg was put to rot. Bandage gauze is essential to mount the rotten veg on the hook.It should be made thin -every 2 strands alternately pulled out.
We are nearer to bagging the Grass Carp – the nervy fish !
Cheers
Hamdhingra


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:38 am 
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Sound like a plan Ham. The next time you are heading for the dam give me a holler. Will try and make it.

Gotto get me one of those amur


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:57 am 
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Ya , I will make some of these and the moment the water level drops to below to where those thorny sticks stop to exist -thats the time.
Appears we are nearly there -its patience and perceverance now
WW...Ham


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:57 pm 
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3/0 hooks Ham? I though Owner in no 8 would be more like it...didnt know that these guys will go for such big hooks.Well, I only hope to try...That pellet of palak wound with gauze seems very intriguing, must try it out, who knows I might get myself a biggie?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:02 pm 
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Wrt Grass Carp. Use a syringe with needle to pump some air into an earthworm. Put the hook into the earthworm on the opposite side of the bubble and cast out using a bubble float. You will catch grass carp :-)

IA


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:44 pm 
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Dam I wonder who thought of that first. Giving a worm a blow job, that is. :shock: :shock: :oops:

But sounds very possible.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:52 pm 
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Hell - this is going to work!
Hamdhingra


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:43 am 
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Very observant Sir…. I am an amateur in the skill of fishing however the information provided on this thread seems to be very useful.

Regards,
Tathagata


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:59 am 
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Owen wrote:
Possible with a rohu asif, but not having caught a decent grass carp, the bait is what intrigues me.



Ok here are two tried and tested methods for grass carp!!!

1) Earthworms in the monsoon... its attracts a lot of other stuff too, but grass carp takes just fine.

2) The local algae bloom... take some algae from the water, wrap it around a 6 or 8 and let it drift with the wind about 2 feet down...

They put up a decent fight and they can grow really big!

Cheers,
IG


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