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 Post subject: Ragi??
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:10 pm 
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Location: Brighton UK
Hey guys,

Some friends and I recently returned from a trip to the Cauvery in search of Mahseer. We fished lures and managed fish to just under 30lbs. We spent many hours fishing ragi and had several good runs but failed to connect to the fish.

We presented the ragi on a large hook using a hair to keep the point of the hook clear. The gillies said this was no good and that the hook was to be buried inside the bait to fool the fish.

What do you guys make of this and how do you present yours??

Also whats the ideal size ragi ball??

Many thanks,

Sam.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:21 pm 
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Hi Sam,

Ragi works very well provided the fish are accustomed to it. Most big mahseer are caught on a ragi ball the size of a tennis ball. The ragi used at the cauvery fishing camps is made out of ragi powder, crushed aniseed, asafoetida and is steamed in a large cooker.

While fishing ragi the hook is completely embedded in the ragi ball so as to mask it's presence.

A hair rig makes sense for most carp in a lake but it may not work as well in a river with heavy current.

Cheers
Bopanna


Last edited by IndianAngler on Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: ragi
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:32 pm 
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Location: Brighton UK
With regard to the ingredients in the ragi - the flavours are obviously what attracts the mahseer to the ragi. With this in mind, we took some concentrated ethyl-based flavours commonly used to flavour boilies for carp fishing. We found success with fruity flavours. On one night we had three 'runs' in the space of around an hour or two using it. Flavourings and additives for carp baits/boilies are practically a multi million pound industry over here in Europe.....the list is endless and varied.There are so many to chose from. Food for thought eh?

Also a hair rig is equally effective on running water as it is on stillwater. Hair rigs are used extensively here on the uk's running water venues with great success for barbel, bream and carp etc.... I have also used hair rigs on the huge river systems in france while fishing for carp and catfish and it is very effective.

Perhaps it could be equally effective for mahseer?

Oh, and excuse my ignorance but what is "asafoetida".

Many thanks,

sam.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:45 pm 
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Dear Sam,

Asafoetida or Hing as it is known in India is a spice which is made from the resin of the Asafoetida plant (Ferula assafoetida, family Apiaceae). Its pungent odour has resulted in its being called by many unpleasant names; thus in French it is known (among other names) as Merde du Diable (Devil's faeces); in some dialects of English too it was known as Devil's Dung. It has a strong onion like taste.

So did you mix the ethyl-based flavours into the ragi?

Which part of the year did you fish?

Were the lures more effective than the ragi?

Were there any lures that performed better than the others?


Tight lines!
Bops


Last edited by IndianAngler on Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Q + A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:00 am 
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Location: Brighton UK
Hey Bops,

Thanks for your detailed description of "the devils dung". Now I know!

We cooked the ragi balls untill they were squidgy and pliable and then kneaded the ethyl flavours into the paste. Once this was done the paste was re-rolled into balls and left to cool and harden for the hook. The flavours were added in minute quantities as they are very concentrated and only a few drops per ball was all that was needed for the bait to have a good leakage of flavour.

We were fishing there in Feb/March time.

For us the lures were more effective. I dare say this is because we adore chucking lures and will generally lure fish in preference to static baits if the opportunity arises. We generally only fished ragi for a couple of hours each night and did not really give it a fair go.

Using lures we were able to take an average of perhaps 5 fish a day. Most of them came in the early morning or evening. Using Mepps spinners seemed to attract the smaller fish while minnow plugs and plastic shads got bigger fish but less frequently.

I think ragi will catch you a bigger, better stamp of fish while the lures keep you busy with greater numbers of smaller fish. Each has their merits.

Sam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:33 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:52 pm
Posts: 106
Samfish,

I have only been fishing the JLR stretch, from Galibore up to Dodda Makali, over the last few years, manily between nov and Dec. The standard bait rig is ragi onto the hook , size 7/0. Occasionally, the gillies would use the Hing stuff. The hook is tied striaght to the mainline. 3 ft up the line is a spring-type sliding lead. My buddy George uses this silicone tubing to help in the grip. I use Power Gum (1mm size) knots on both ends of the lead.

We have never used the hair rig, yet have managed good hauls of fish. 3 of us fishing for five days (no night sessions) would typically land between 200 to 300 lb of fish. Most would be between 5 to 15 lb, some of 30 to 45 lb. Our best records are 66, 70, 88 and 92 lb, all on ragi. Some of the spots are groundbaited regularly, so that helps i guess.

One downside of hair rig may be that the hook is exposed to the rocks, which may make it more prone to dulling. But if you're fishing more open water, it could be good. After all, mahseer have pharyngeal teeth, which means the bait will be taken deep into the mouth, along with the hook.

GIllies will always follow their set methods. Sometimes, on a hunch, I would go against their grain. Sometimes I win!

On baits, we have tried creative stuff, from barbequed chicken (it works!) to red apple (nope) to this sticky,oily rice sweet that resembles ragi (hopeless!). My guess is that ragi has been used so much, the fish have grown accustomed to it. Next year, I'm bringing more carp scents to add to the ragi, just for fun.

At the rapids, ragi dont work so much. Live baits like loaches (chilwa) and crabs seem to be tops, although the latter is 'frowned upon'. The fish have not been big, so far, but the fights have been awesome. One I will not forget is this fish that took a cast chilwa at the Kenggal rapids, on the drop, and dragged our coracle 100m down the river. It weighed only 20 lb!

><<:>


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 Post subject: Re: Ragi??
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:44 pm 
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Location: Bangalore/Andman Islands, India
samfish wrote:
Hey guys,

Some friends and I recently returned from a trip to the Cauvery in search of Mahseer. We fished lures and managed fish to just under 30lbs. We spent many hours fishing ragi and had several good runs but failed to connect to the fish.

We presented the ragi on a large hook using a hair to keep the point of the hook clear. The gillies said this was no good and that the hook was to be buried inside the bait to fool the fish.

What do you guys make of this and how do you present yours??

Also whats the ideal size ragi ball??

Many thanks,

Sam.


Hi Sam,

The stretch of the Cauvery you were fishing is a fantastic one. Its known for its Mahseer that more readily go for spinners and plugs. One can have a lot of action at this stretch if they het the timing right. The action begins at dawn and lasts till about 9.30am. Things quiten down and pick up at about 4.00pm till dusk. I have caught many fish outside this 'feeding time' and the majority of them came from the shade under the trees that line the river. I was out wading or in a coracle casting from the center towards the bank and well into the shady patches. Most often I'd get a strike along the edges of the shady patches as the spinner came into the brightly lit middle of the river. :roll:

Now the ragi fishing I've done..... The hooks always been burried in the ball. I've varied the size of the ball from the size of a pigeon's egg to the size of a cricket ball. Caught fish regardless of size..... smaller fish on smaller bait.

With regards to positioning the bait, I look at positioning my bait in an eddy or along the edge of fast flowing water. This would be a place where food would naturally accumulate. I almost always have hing with me and mix it in just before I cast and not while boiling the ragi. With regards to faster water and rapids I avoid using ragi and use live/dead bait.

I tend to go for larger baits when it comes to fishing for bigger Mahseer. I think the smaller fish start nibbling at the bait and the bigger ones follow to check out the thamasha :P Hence a larger bait would last longer in the water.

Regards,
Mighty Marlin.


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 Post subject: Re: Ragi??
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:26 am
Posts: 1479
Hi Sam / MM,
May i add that Ragi balls work only in the Cauvery and always cover the hook. The masheer are pretty accurate when they strike, and are unlikely to touch the hook if you guys were trying a hair rig. Ragi works most year round (except when the water is muddy), then nothing seems to work. I still go by the book and try bright spoons when the water is discoloured. Occasionally have some luck that way. Must add that the timings mentioned by MM are not the rule.I have caught large Masheer even at 3 am.
Chilwa is a great bait for fast flowing water, and a hook tied around a crab (minus the pincers) with very light line, makes a good variation in slower flowing water. You can find them under small rocks near the water or better still buy paddy feild crabs from city market and take them to the river in a cloth bag. Let me warn you that they sound like you have creepy crawlies in the house, and can stink to high heaven.

Regarding plugs on the Cauvery, i haven't had a single strike in at least a dozen occasions that i have tried them. Robbie did get broken once at Jain Kul. Broke the rod too!
Regards
Owen
Mighty Marlin wrote:
samfish wrote:
Hey guys,

Some friends and I recently returned from a trip to the Cauvery in search of Mahseer. We fished lures and managed fish to just under 30lbs. We spent many hours fishing ragi and had several good runs but failed to connect to the fish.

We presented the ragi on a large hook using a hair to keep the point of the hook clear. The gillies said this was no good and that the hook was to be buried inside the bait to fool the fish.

What do you guys make of this and how do you present yours??

Also whats the ideal size ragi ball??

Many thanks,

Sam.


Hi Sam,

The stretch of the Cauvery you were fishing is a fantastic one. Its known for its Mahseer that more readily go for spinners and plugs. One can have a lot of action at this stretch if they het the timing right. The action begins at dawn and lasts till about 9.30am. Things quiten down and pick up at about 4.00pm till dusk. I have caught many fish outside this 'feeding time' and the majority of them came from the shade under the trees that line the river. I was out wading or in a coracle casting from the center towards the bank and well into the shady patches. Most often I'd get a strike along the edges of the shady patches as the spinner came into the brightly lit middle of the river. :roll:

Now the ragi fishing I've done..... The hooks always been burried in the ball. I've varied the size of the ball from the size of a pigeon's egg to the size of a cricket ball. Caught fish regardless of size..... smaller fish on smaller bait.

With regards to positioning the bait, I look at positioning my bait in an eddy or along the edge of fast flowing water. This would be a place where food would naturally accumulate. I almost always have hing with me and mix it in just before I cast and not while boiling the ragi. With regards to faster water and rapids I avoid using ragi and use live/dead bait.

I tend to go for larger baits when it comes to fishing for bigger Mahseer. I think the smaller fish start nibbling at the bait and the bigger ones follow to check out the thamasha :P Hence a larger bait would last longer in the water.

Regards,
Mighty Marlin.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:10 pm 
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Location: Bangalore/Andman Islands, India
Hi Owen/Sam,

The little ragi bait fishing that I've done have not produced much :cry:
While out spinning from dawn to dusk, on many an occasion I've always found the earlier part and later part of the day being more productive.
However....
On the Galibori stretch I've bait fished at every hour of the day. 80% of my fish have been between 6.30pm and 2.00am. You'll notice the majority of my mahseer pics are at night. I, on this stretch prefer the evening sessions. My morning sessions are much shorter and I always have a spinning rod with me. I've caught a lot of small (under 5 kilos)mahseer on spinner at Kengal, Mosslehalla, Mysore Mada and the Galibori Rapid (Galibori 2).
Like Owen said there's nothing to beat crab when the water's muddy. Only problem was finding the damn crabs, which Owen now has solved for me. :)
I've had a couple of strikes on plugs, trebles straightened etc.... As far as I know Prathap's been quite successful on plug. I came across the Rapala SSR, shallow diver which looks like it'll be deadly. There's a baitfish (S.E Asian model) that looks exactly like a little carp. I'm trying to get my hands on some before next season!

Regards,
Mighty Marlin.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:38 pm 
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Hi MM,

You mentioned "baitfish (S.E Asian model) that looks exactly like a little carp" could you post a link to this lure? I'd like to have a go at it as well.

Bops


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:51 pm 
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Hi Bops,

I saw the lure with Pat and used it at headworks. I then did a search on the Rapala website and found the plug. Its exactly the same but the pattern is different.... what he had looked like a small red fin carp or baby carnatic.
He bought it from a tackle shop in Sing.

http://www.rapala.com/products/luresdetail.cfm?modelName=super_shad_rap&freshorsalt=Fresh

Regards,
Mighty Marlin.

I think these might be decent SH - Shiner and GSH - Gold Shiner


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:58 pm 
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Hi MM,

It looks like a performer! If you're getting one please add me to the list. If I find someone coming down from the US I'll add one for you too...

The SD and SH shades look good for our rivers.

Bops


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:33 pm 
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Will do.

And if there's some kind soul on the forum who's seen this and has a big heart :lol: :lol: :lol:

get the drift? :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:48 pm 
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Hi MM,
I have quite a few Rapala plugs and some that are probably used for sea fishing that i picked up in Colombo (don't know why). I do like the idea of plug fishing, seldom loose one on snags. Just more confident with other baits. That should change with one strike.
P.S Ever try maggots from dung piles. The cats at Mekadatu will climb the gorge if they know you have some.
Regards
Owen
Mighty Marlin wrote:
Hi Owen/Sam,

The little ragi bait fishing that I've done have not produced much :cry:
While out spinning from dawn to dusk, on many an occasion I've always found the earlier part and later part of the day being more productive.
However....
On the Galibori stretch I've bait fished at every hour of the day. 80% of my fish have been between 6.30pm and 2.00am. You'll notice the majority of my mahseer pics are at night. I, on this stretch prefer the evening sessions. My morning sessions are much shorter and I always have a spinning rod with me. I've caught a lot of small (under 5 kilos)mahseer on spinner at Kengal, Mosslehalla, Mysore Mada and the Galibori Rapid (Galibori 2).
Like Owen said there's nothing to beat crab when the water's muddy. Only problem was finding the damn crabs, which Owen now has solved for me. :)
I've had a couple of strikes on plugs, trebles straightened etc.... As far as I know Prathap's been quite successful on plug. I came across the Rapala SSR, shallow diver which looks like it'll be deadly. There's a baitfish (S.E Asian model) that looks exactly like a little carp. I'm trying to get my hands on some before next season!

Regards,
Mighty Marlin.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:57 pm 
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Should one keep moving the rod tip from side to side to get the swimming action one sees in the mini-video?

Rustam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:21 pm 
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Rustam Bana wrote:
Should one keep moving the rod tip from side to side to get the swimming action one sees in the mini-video?

Rustam


No Rustam... the maggots will wriggle about on their own, there's no need for you to move your rod tip!! :wink: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

On a more serious note.... that's the action the plugs have. They're designed to 'swim' like that. You could vary the speed of your retrive to make their movement more erratic or bring them in in a stop start retrive. Remember you're trying to make the plug look like an injured or fleeing baitfish.

Regards,
Mighty M.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:59 pm 
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Quote:
No Rustam... the maggots will wriggle about on their own, there's no need for you to move your rod tip!!


Very droll! :roll: :wink: :mrgreen:

I know about that stop-start reeling in bit but how do the manufacturers get that night out on the tiles action?

Rustam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:22 am 
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ok guys, who's got a magotty rod? :P :D :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:52 am 
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I thought you specialised in snake bites mate!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:20 pm 
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Getting back to this thread, Rapala advises a special knot for tying the main line to the plug.This ensures the "Night out on the tiles" action as aptly described by Rustam ! But then i guess most of you plugies know all this.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:27 pm 
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Yup they do advise people to use a special 'rapala knot'. I think this is the knot you're talking about.

http://www.steelheader.net/knots/rapala_knot.htm

Regards,
Mighty Marlin.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:45 pm 
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Thats right MM, but tell me do you need to use a swivel with plugs ?
Doesn't it spoil the action of the plug ?
Owen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:07 pm 
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No Owen no need of a swivel. I've used plugs with a snap swivel before but it didn't mess with the action.

I guess the swivel was only for 'illustration' purposes in the diagram of the knot.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:18 pm 
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Guys,

I do 99% of my fishing with plugs/lures.

I don't tie the Rapala knot, what I like to do is put a split ring at the nose of the plug and tie any knot to the ring.

I try to keep my terminal tackle to a minimum, this holds true especially when you fish with smaller plugs. I believe that a clip/swivel bang in front of the plug ruins its action.

I tie the swivel at the other end of the trace.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:32 am 
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Yeah Bobby that makes sense, but so does the rapala knot that gives the lure the same effect as a split ring minus the reliability factor worry with plit rings.


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