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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:07 pm 
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Mahseer have thick rubbery mouths that hold a hook well.
They fight hard but aren't inclined towards arial acrobatics and wild head shaking that often throws hooks.
They live in an environment of boulders, rock ledges and timber that makes loosing a proportion of hooked fish to line breakage ineviable.
Mahseer anglers are often fishing out in the wilds where a hand stiched together with barbed trebles after an accident would be a disaster.

To me, the case for going barbless is clear cut and having done just that during my recent second visit to the Cauvery, I'm happy to say that although fish were lost, I doubt that I lost any that would have stayed on if I were using barbed hooks.
We even managed to land a fish that had to be handlined out of a timber pile and must have spent 10 minutes on what was essentially a slack line - without the hooks falling out.

I did get broken off a couple of times during the stay but with the lure remaining outside the fishes mouth during about 85% of hookups, I'm fairly confident that the lost fish will have been able to rid themselves of the hooks and lure in fairly short order.
Had the hooks been barbed, the chances of those fish getting rid of the hooks and surviving to fight another day might have been rather slim.

There may even be advantages to crushing those barbs that are a little more immediate than the long term goal of increased fish survival.
no barbs means that it takes less pressure to drive the hook point home and secure a hookup and that means more strikes converted to fish on the line.

So, how many of us currently go barbless for mahseer and is there any circumstance where this might not be an advantage ?

If you don't fish barbless already, give it a go. We're sportsmen on here and not fishing for meat so if you find that it's not for you then fair enough, but I suspect that once you've made the change, you'll be stuck on barbless.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:17 pm 
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Hi Ken

I second you on this topic. Barbless is the way to go for mahseer or any freshwater fish that doesn't try to throw the hook.

Topic made sticky.

Bops


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:32 pm 
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Let me play devils advocate here, why?

Give me better reasons that those mentioned about…


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:54 pm 
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Bobby.

If I'd taken a photo of my hand last month when I was deeply impaled on two points of a 4X barbed 1/0 treble with the other two hooks in the mouth of a very angry barramundi (Now you do need barbs with those fish) you wouldn't even see that there was a discussion to be had.

Seriously though, I know that change is sometimes hard but you have to get over your personal inertia and embrace it.
If I said that going barbless might save you a few RS because you'll have a better chance of getting your lures out from timber, would that be a "better reason" ?
Probably not but if you take another look, there is reason enough to change in what I've already said.

Playing you at your own game, why do you feel you need a barb when even a moderatly skilled angler has no difficulty maintaining a taught line to a fish with modern tackle ?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:12 pm 
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Since this discussion is all about going barbless for mahseer, more fish saved is reason enough for going barbless.

Considering how hard a mahseers mouth is, any improvement in penetration gained by going barbless is another reason to support this.

Bops


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:26 pm 
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Ken L wrote:
Bobby.

If I'd taken a photo of my hand last month when I was deeply impaled on two points of a 4X barbed 1/0 treble with the other two hooks in the mouth of a very angry barramundi (Now you do need barbs with those fish) you wouldn't even see that there was a discussion to be had.


I know exactly what you are talking about Ken, been there on two occasions but I would not change things like that because of my stupidity or carelessness, mistakes happen, but we should be cautious..

Once fishing in Sydney when I when to take out a spoon that was stuck to a rock and my hand got caught in the hooks at the other end, after this experience I carry a serious wire cutter with me.

The other time in India where my brother got caught in the palm on the hooks of a Nilsmaster lure that had a very alive 40lb barra stuck on the hooks at the other end. After that Sydney incident the wire-cutter came in very handy. Pushed the hooks through and clipped the barb off.

Sometimes coming home with a few scars makes a good learning experience. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:09 pm 
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Hi Ken,
Even with barbed hooks i have had mahseer throw hooks on more than one occassion.

After the initial run of a big fish down river, as they turn in your direction the hook sometimes jump free. I put this down to not having struck properly or problems with the drag, when the line came out in jerks.

I rarely use lures for mahseer, and dislike trebels and therefore find a single barbed hook more suitable formy style of fishing.

However, if fishing from a coracle, you can follow the fish at will and keep constant pressure on, i agree your success ratio with barbless should be pretty good. But if you are on foot and likely to tread water and do some swimming through hell to keep abreast i think your chances will steeply dimnish on barbless.
Regards
Owen


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:14 pm 
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Hi Owen, it's possible that the hooks were thrown due to insufficient penetration. Try barbless next time and see if it improves the hookup :P

Bops


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:26 pm 
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The other possibility is that the fish was only hooked through a sliver of flesh.
This can just tear through and leave you with nothing on the line without the need for a dodgy hookhold - nothing to do with barbed or barbless.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:23 pm 
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Am going to give it a try - like the thought of not hurting the fish and what the hell if we loose a fish once in a while - it will only add to the fun. Even with barbed hooks, the rule we follow is to keep the line tight and following that with the barbless should also be ok.

Now to get a stock of barbless


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:28 pm 
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Viraj,

File the barb or crimp it down.

Bobby


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:16 pm 
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Are barbless easily available ?


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:24 pm 
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modify ur hooks..crimp down the barb or just file them off..


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:26 pm
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Location: Yorkshire
For all of my UK lure fishing, fresh and salt, I squashed the barbs on my lures.

I didn't lose any more fish because of this.
It did make it easier to unhook them and less dangerous for me.

YB.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:52 pm 
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Hi,

Filing may turn out better than squashing the barb (on HEAVY hooks), for hook penetration.


tight lines

Makarand


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:34 am 
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Location: Yorkshire
In the Uk we don't need 4x hooks for carp, pike or seabass.

Your fish might require heavy duty hooks.
Filing them down might be a better way to keep the structural integrity of the hook.

YB.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:44 am 
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I've seen both mahseer and barramundi turn 3x hooks into paperclips so 4x is really the minimum for India.
As heavy hooks arn't available in barbless, I crush mine. I doubt that there's a structural issue though because the forces are exerted on the bend of the hook durring a fight rather that immediatly behind the point.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:07 am 
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Hi,

It's not a structural issue. But if you file the barb, the point will not have any excess material (where the barb existed). The hook will then penetrate a fish's mouth easily.

Bigger hooks, will have more of this excess material. Hence the filing.


tight lines

Makarand


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:42 pm 
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Good discussion. I wonder how barbless will work on trouts. They jump quite frequently.

Cheers

Sualeh


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:40 pm 
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with barbless its a neat and easy hook up and release. U cant afford loose line with barbless. For trout - once hooked I lift them clean out of water .In fact u do not have to release for as the fish go flip flap on the shore-they are free.
I have tried these but do not practice these..............Ham


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:27 pm 
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Hi Guys,
Many of the UK club waters & day ticket lakes have a barbless only rule, catches have not dropped, playing a fish is an art form (for me anyhow), keeping a tightline isnt hard.

barbless hooks can twist their way into the fishes lip turning over on itself & hard fishting (carp) fish can damage their mouths, i had better results with the barbs crushed down wi pliers, deeper hookup, with a little resistance.

Owner do a great heavy gauge barbeles hook.The circle hooks they use for Tarpon look interesting for mahseer, anyone used them?

paul


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:01 pm 
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Prefer the Aki Twist for use with chilwa, and Jobu Big game for use with ragi. Both made by Owner. Only problem is the points get damaged easily with the snags and it is quite pointless re-sharpening them.
Also like Mustad Hooligan hooks for mahseer. All built on 3x wire of course.
Regards
Owen


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:34 am 
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
Hi all, I've been reading this with interest.

In the UK there seems to be a divide in opinions with no-one able to settle the argument either way due to lack of convincing evidence.
Some clubs or establishments insist on barbless only whereas others stipulate barbed hooks.
The reasoning behind this depends on your point of view. Barbless hooks are said to be easier to unhook and so less damaging to fish particularly where inexperienced anglers are concerned. However those that favour barbed hooks do so because it has been said that in stronger fish or lighter tackle where there is likely to be a longer fight the barbless hook is more prone to damaging the mouth due to more movement during the fight than a barbed hook.

I tend to keep an open mind and use both at different times. The only anecdotal evidence I can give is a local lake which insists on barbless hooks for all fishing. If you catch bream, which barely fight at all, or smaller species there is no mouth damage. If you catch tench, which are hard fighting fish, they all have mouth damage. I have seen a similar pattern of damage at other barbless only venues but it is less noticeable at places where barbed hooks are permitted although certainly not absent.

It is indisputable that barbless hooks will penetrate more efficiently than barbed due to reduced resistance however I strike hard and check hook points routinely and rarely have difficulty removing barbed hooks so will continue to use these as a first choice in most situations. I've often wondered though why no manufacturers seem to make a hook with a rounded 'blob' instead of a barb - easy to unhook but retentive, perhaps it's about cost?

Probably the strongest argument for barbless is that they are definitely easier to remove from your clothing or fingers - most of us have done it after all !

Andy


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 Post subject: Im for Barbless
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:52 pm 
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I have cut off a few hooks from people who hooked themselves instead of the fish. I carry a wire-cutter at all times during fishing. All of the times the hooks were barbed and hence had to be driven into the skin to get the barb cut off. Believe me it is a painful process. Im soon going to apply for a "Dr." title for such kind of operations. :lol:
Go barbless, doesnt hurt. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:31 pm 
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I have done a few of those...including one on my last trip to India where my godson managed to sink his hook into a guy who suddenly made a dash behind him. I always teach the kids to look behind before every cast, this guy just charged behind and got the hook. To make matters worse the hook was not clean through with the barb imbedded in. I had to drive the hook through first and then cut it. I did not have my heavy duty wirecutter but the Leatherman Blast went through the VMC like butter.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:55 am 
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Quote:
Probably the strongest argument for barbless is that they are definitely easier to remove from your clothing or fingers - most of us have done it after all !


Been there, done that. Whilst a finewire size 16 is n worse than a brable thourn, a 2/0 4X treble is a whole different ballgame, especially if it's gone through a joint. Fortunatly, the hooks ended up in my left hjand and I'm right handed and therefore had the strength and control to deal with it. Still, pushing big hooks through your own skin, joints or toenails (I've done all three) is no fun at all - and you have to twist it to get through a toenail before you can cut the point off.

Adolph. It's horses for courses. As said, I wouldn't opt for barbless hooks for species like baramundi or European perch but for some like mahseer, they're my hook of choice.


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