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INDIANANGLER

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 Post subject: Landing and releasing
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:37 pm 
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Enlightened

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:57 pm
Posts: 66
Hi Sandeep,

Sorry for the delay in responding.

I am sure you have realised by now there isn't a middle way. If rules must be framed stringing must be stopped. Don't get me wrong and get the impression I am harping on the issue. I do know fish can be injured by other means and succumb to the injuries. As you know a fighting mahseer takes the angler to submerged rocks and can sustain gaping wounds against them and succumb to osmosis. And again a mahseer landed but not tied can still die. So, a comprehensive procedure for the landing, handling and releasing of mahseer must be involved. With my experience I can help you.

I first heard the argument that a string/ cord passed below the gill cover and through the mouth will not injure gills about five years ago. To clear any doubts please examine a fish carefully. The gill cover is the only protection for the gills. If the string is passed below the gill cover it will still come in contact with the first layer and the passage to the mouth is very small.


framing the rules you have in mind will not be an easy task.

Don


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:47 am 
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Enlightened

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:57 pm
Posts: 66
Hello Sandeep,

I overlooked a very important point brought to our notice by Bobby, the use of a lip grip. This is a very handy gadget specifically designed for fish to be released and would make the angler's and ghillie's task easier as well as minimise the trauma of a fish hooked and exhausted and worse still the sight of humans. Ideal for thick lipped fish like the mahseer. You should recommend the use of the lip grip to JLR and that every ghillie while accomanying an angler to be equiped with one. Most makes include a scale but I have yet to see one in a catalogue with a scale in excess of 75lbs. Other members may know better.

It is the responsibility of JLR to frame rules under your guidance and with the help of others. I would like to know how you intend going about it.

Don


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 Post subject: Trained Gillies
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:01 pm 
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Enlightened

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:33 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Delhi
just joined the club - some gen from north india

more concerned with the need for trained gillies and experienced anglers guiding the beginners with mahseer through the landing, taking the fish out of the water and removing the hooks.

see too many stupid pictures around + some on this site with the fish getting treated badly. saw a 40 lbs pix in a resort advert with the dude holding it verticle - dead fish for sure.

damage control during the landing making sure the fish is ready, taking the fish out of the water carefully to avoid fish jerking around and damaging itself with the hook and line, proper removal of hooks with minimum fuss and no damage to the gills requires experience and proper guidance for beginners. it is here that we have dead fish.

stringer for small fish is a stupid thing - their mouths are too small anything below < 10 lbs. Larger fish up north need longer revival and cooling off time after a big fight - I would recommend a stringer to cool off the fish in a quiet pool for 20 minutes depending on the fight before taking a quick picture and release into the water. Large fish have decent space between the mouth and gills and a stringer can be used without injury to the gills.

The other option of holding the fish and reviving it takes long and the human contact with the fish is not required.

A bit of a trade-off here ... but from experience they need the revival time before heading off to the main currents again ...

found weighing also damaging fish - our gang has given up weighing fish and we reach a consensus by visual estimation - a 22 is a 20 or a 25 lb just as much as a 43 is a 40 or a 45 lb - does not really make much of a difference after some time on the river.

Seeing a mahseer swim back into the river is as satisfying as the landing moment ... thats what we need to show the beginners ...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:57 pm 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:26 am
Posts: 1479
Well put mate!

Just one thing, if you are equipped with a proper weighing bag that is made especially for weighing big fish, and is nicely wet before weighing including the anglers hands, there should be no harm in weighing a fish. It is practised the world over quite effeciently.

The job has to be done quickly and effeciently, and as close to the water as possible.
Same goes for photographs. In a kneeling position with a landing mat below the fish, or the angler standing in the water holding the fish very close to the water level just in case it decides to get hyper.

A hyper fish can be calmed down, by rolling it onto its back when in your arms, for a few seconds.
Great care needs to be taken to ensure that a fish is not allowed to flop around on the ground or even on a landing mat.
All this is easier said than done, but we need to strive for perfection.
Regards
Owen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:32 pm 
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Fishaholic

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:55 pm
Posts: 2142
Location: Just outside New Delhi
Hey Bagiganga,

that was perfectly put. A mahseer will always be what you really remember it for... the way it hit the lure... the first run... the moment you first see it.... the wild rush when it first sees you... and then the magic moment when you let it go and it glides away slowly... only to disappear with one flick of its tail.

Thanks mate. I agree weight means is nothing.


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 Post subject: Mahseer Handling JLR
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:04 pm
Posts: 6
Location: London
Hello all

I've had a quick look at this. One thing that comes to mind is that the gillies aren't able to say NO to a client seemingly. I asked one how his clients were weighing the fish without a sling, "through the gills sir".

They really need to get proper enforced codes of practice and not always defer to the "rich" customer. One lot last year apparently demanding a 100lb fish, demanding meals after 10pm as "we are sophisticated", getting-up at 10am, then going of to their bath.......

Tigh Lines
Kevin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:18 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Wiltshire, UK
I've scanned through all the posts here and agree with much of what's been said.
From my limited experience (but fishing with people who have lots of experience), a SOFT cord stringer placed carefully and correctly as has been described does absolutely no damage whatsoever. This method is regularly used by highly experienced anglers who simply would not do it if there was a problem.
An exhausted mahseer released immediately into heavy flow may quite possibly turn belly up and die out of view of the angler.
The harder the fight has been the more likely this is to happen and so the greater the benefit to the fish for being placed on a stringer to keep it safe during this all important recovery period. It is routine practice in England to rest barbel (a relative of mahseer) after the fight before taking them out of the water and then making sure they recover fully in the landing net before release.
Small mahseer should be landed quickly on heavier tackle so are unlikely to be in the exhausted state and able to be released immediately providing they can support themselves in the water ok. Also stringers are less suitable for smaller fish anyway as access is more difficult to insert the stringer.

Damage to gill rakers should obviously be avoided but if they are damaged it doesn't mean the fish will necessarily die. I've caught many pike with broken gill rakers some of which were actually hanging outside the gill covers which have healed and the fish is functioning normally. If gills were that delicate surely fish would struggle to survive when you consider the amount of rubbish that must pass through them daily.

Perhaps we should be wary of becoming paranoid about the harm we may cause fish as the only real answer to that is not to fish for them in the first place. If we fish for them though we have a duty to look after them.

Weighing should only be done uslng an appropriate sling preferably with drainage holes so the fish can be slid into it in the water and excess can drain out to give an accurate weight. Never suspend a mahseer from a stringer or gills unless it is going to be eaten or already dead!

The weight of the fish may be unimportant to some anglers but I certainly want to know how big a large fish is with some accuracy and not a guesstimate which means absolutely nothing. Different people can guess wildly different weights for the same fish. After all if someone tells you they caught a big mahseer the first thing you want to know is how big. If you haven't weighed it accurately you don't know no matter how good at guessing you think you are.

I think Bagiganga has summed a few points up nicely above and I agree with Owens comments on fish handling and photography wholeheartedly.

Andy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:40 am 
Offline
Enlightened

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:33 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Delhi
Hey Andypike

u r making sense ... settles some of the disputes here ... but ...

weighing of fish -
after trying all tricks with fancy equipment including digital meters, and the years of running the river and tracking big boys over 150 kms, weighing of fish has been discarded as a waste of time - instead a beer is thrown down the throat, smokes are rolled, and the stupid grin of a mahseer angler after landing a big boy is pasted on the face.

weighing a 40lbs in a sling bag is an event ... try putting one in ... the digital meters dont come on when you want them to ... the fish is getting irritated in the bag shouting 'get on with it' and everybody has an advise to give ... back in the water and you wonder what was all that about ... give me the beer and a smoke boys ...

judging fish weight requires catching quite a few big ones ... we have seen long fish with slim bodies, short fish with stocky bodies, bull headed and flat heads, old fish and young fiesty ones - all +40 lbs ... after a while it is not difficult to judge the weight of a fish ... in fact we can guess it on the take itself ... wouldnt make a non 40s club member become 'the scale' ...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:18 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Hi Bagiganga
The post-capture beer sounds a great idea. I'm still smiling from my first big mahseer 11 years ago, the picture of which is hanging on the wall opposite me now as a constant reminder. I was slimmer, fitter and had more hair then!

Some anglers aren't interetsed in what their fish weigh or in getting a photo and this is fair enough.
For me though weighing of bigger fish is an integral part of my trip as I like to KNOW what it weighs. Getting a nice photo is something that is equally important as it is something I can look at forever more to bring the events back to life, one day I'll be too old and unfit to fish for mahseer! Memories are always there but prone to distortion over time, fish get bigger, fights last longer, etc, etc. That's also why I take lots of video footage on my trips which I have watched over and over.

My first point is that if a fish is not accurately weighed it doesn't actually WEIGH anything, it is just a small, medium or large! You can guess as much as you like but it will always be a guess and therefore not a true weight irrespective of how good at guessing you may be. I am happy to do this with smaller fish and some anglers are happy to do it with all fish.

My second point would be that if you don't weigh fish some of the time you have no "yardstick" with which to guess.

A third point would be what are you going to do when you get a mahseer you think is 125lbs? Are you going to weigh it to find out if it is a record? How are you going to weigh it safely and quickly if the only time you ever do it is with the record?.....panic, lack of practice etc.

If you weigh fish often you get very slick at it and it becomes simple.
It really isn't a problem to weigh a big mahseer but you do need a large enough sling so that the fish can be easily guided into it in the water using the stringer. The scales should already have been zeroed with the wet sling so all you do is pour out most of the water as you lift it and have a sling with lots of drainage holes to let the rest of the water out quickly for an accurate weight. I always add more holes using large eyelets as straight from the shop they never have enough.

The fish only leaves the water in the sling and goes straight back in after a weight has been read, it shouldn't get put onto the ground unless a protective padded mat or thick grass is available. This is incredibly quick as long as you are organised and getting a weight should only take about a minute.
The important point here is that you really want at least two people for this and three is useful if you want a photo. As it is usually myself, a friend and a guide this has never been an issue.

I have weighed and photographed some HUGE fish like this and the key is to get everything organised and ready whilst the fish is resting on the stringer and then after weighing and photos never let the mahseer off the stringer until it is 100% recovered.

Regards
Andy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:21 am 
Offline
Enlightened

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:33 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Delhi
hey andy

ok ... agree with your video trick ... cant still be bothered with the bag ...

we got a movie on the make with 4 years of footage - its got cut once but we needed more footage ... the wife hollers everytime I put it on ... got to watch it on the sly like porn ...

you need to do some fishing up north ... will give you a different perspective from the Cauvery ...

and no talk about losing fish going barbless up north - the idea is if you hook it you got to land it, otherwise the fish spanked you !

Sorry folks, none of that hurting the fish stuff - we sharpen our barbs ... every time we go down to cast - the complete tackle is checked - take no chances or you'll get the spanking of your life ... its MAHSEER

no one I know likes to leave a fish with a plug in its mouth ...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:18 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Hi Bagiganga
Good luck with the video editing it's very time consuming and four years worth will take you forever....but it will be worth it!

I will fish up North at some time I'm sure, maybe on the Ramganga. The putitora mahseer are just stunning fish and I'd love to get a goonch as well as I don't mind catching ugly fish. But from what I've seen on film the place is just amazing so it has to be done at some time.

Andy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:54 pm 
Offline
Enlightened

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:33 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Delhi
Ramganga is a small river with no place for a decent fight with a big fish ... youll catch a good fish but its half the fun ...

... try the Kali or the Ganges ... give the fish some space to run and kick around in a big river ... and maybe if it goes down the rapid ... better cut your line and whistle... no tackle in the world to hold a big mahseer in mid current heading down river at full speed close to rapid ... everybody gets smoked and whipped sometime ...

opposite to the stupid smile of fish catch angler is the the stunned look of a mahseer whipped angler desperately searching for that smoke and jumping up and down the beach yelling '' what was that monster '' ...

we have all been there ...

thank fish god less now than before ...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:36 pm
Posts: 42
Location: England
Just dipped in for a brief look and was really encouraged that you guys are still keepin this thread alive ... thanx alot.

For the record, i've never deep hooked a mahseer, whether livebait, spun deadbait, plugs, spinners, lures, whatever ... I don't think it's possible to rip the gills out of a mahseer with a hook ... Granted, they're greedy buggers, with a violent disposition, but every mahseer that I've ever landed has been hooked cleanly through the gob.


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 Post subject: Past Sins
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:45 am 
Offline
Enlightened
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:52 pm
Posts: 75
Location: New Delhi
Dear All

I must confess that i have treated fish badly in the past. I have not caught and released(very few that i have caught :D ).I have taken them home to show off, even though Mahseer tastes awful to Bengali purist like me.

Last night between 12 and 3, I went through all the posts on conservation and environment since I am a newbie on the site.It was a genuine eye opener and Vedan's frustration and angst really touched a chord. I haven't caught much fish and probably wont with the current state of affairs and like MKen said neither might my boys.So I thank all of you for this wakeup call and apologies to those fish that have i have sinned against.And i shall endeavor to make up for my past sins.

Phish :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:46 am 
Offline
Fishaholic

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:55 pm
Posts: 2142
Location: Just outside New Delhi
And Phish became a Man.


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