INDIANANGLER

Was browsing the net and came across this....

First ever international gathering on Mahseer, “King of the Rivers”

he International Symposium on “Mahseer 2006: Biology, Culture and Conservation” was held on 29th and 30th March in Kuala Lumpur. The brought together 114 participants, which included fishery administrators, researchers and community groups interested in the conservation of mahseer species, from 10 countries. Over 40 papers pertaining to taxonomy, phylogeny, biology, aquaculture and conservation of mahseer species were presented.

More to read at:
http://www.enaca.org/modules/news/artic ... toryid=755


Cheers,
Alexis

Hope the same is done in India. A bigger challange would be to make the fisheries authorities wake up and make a time bound road map for mahseer conservation and improve the sport fishing potential of rivers.

Ashok / Alexis,

Small world! I was there at the Symposium. Two days of very dry presentations by scientists on all aspects of mahseer. You quickly get lost in the jargon!

On the last day, I gave a presentation of "Angling and its role in Mahseer conservation". When i showed pics of the giant humpbacked mahseer of the Cauvery and the red mahseer of Malaysia, everyone woke up! They didn't realise (or appreciate) that mahseer can grow that big!

I drove the message home that, for mahseer or other river species to be conserved, we need either proper management by the authorities (rare these days!), or community involvement in fish conservation, and participation of eco-conscious anglers in conservation efforts like catch-n-release and tagging. Also, angling brings in big money to both authorities and local communities.

Here's a nice one: A scientist from Bangalore came up to me after the presentation, thanking me for highlighting his "Karnataka mahseer". He also admitted that he's never been to the Cauvery!!!


Btw, I believe theres a new conservation issue in Cauvery now. On my last trip last Nov, we found a TILAPIA fish in the river. Actually, a young local scientist found it (at Temple Pool, Bhimeshwari) and showed it to me cos he couldn't identify it (!!!).

Our hunch was that this fish could have been washed down from some fish pond/tank into the Cauvery from the recent devastating flood.

I'm praying against hope that there's only one tilapia in the river. This species breed like rabbits and devour fish eggs, among others. A population boom of tilapia will annihilate the next generation of mahseer and other indigenous species of the Cauvery.

In Malaysia, we have a grave problem from introduced alien fishes. Tilapia is one of them. Other species include peacocok bass (not the big Cichla temensis but the 'trash' Cichla monoculas) and striped cichlids. They dominate the waters and soon the other fishes dwindle in size and numbers.

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Dear Junglebum,

Thanks for the inputs. I hope in india they have a list of fish which should not be bought in from other countries. The ignorance on Mahseer fishing was disheartening. It was great to hear you gave a presentation on Mahseer angling scene. Hope good things like this continue, gather pace and make a difference.

Hi JB,

Can you send me your presentation or post it on a link where it can be viewed?

Regards,

Bobby

Will go thru the site and papers - didn't know that Mahaseer was in 11 asian countries!

Regards

Viraj

[quote="junglebum"]Ashok / Alexis,


Here's a nice one: A scientist from Bangalore came up to me after the presentation, thanking me for highlighting his "Karnataka mahseer". He also admitted that he's never been to the Cauvery!!!
Hi JB
Where has this guy been living ? MG Road ?


Btw, I believe theres a new conservation issue in Cauvery now. On my last trip last Nov, we found a TILAPIA fish in the river. Actually, a young local scientist found it (at Temple Pool, Bhimeshwari) and showed it to me cos he couldn't identify it (!!!).

Our hunch was that this fish could have been washed down from some fish pond/tank into the Cauvery from the recent devastating flood.

I'm praying against hope that there's only one tilapia in the river. This species breed like rabbits and devour fish eggs, among others.

Too late JB! I have caught Tilapia at Mekadatu in the 80's and used them as bait for Masheer, and then this year i caught a few of them at Crocodile rocks while fishing for carp. You can see them with their small ones swimming very close to the banks.
Regards
Owen

Owen,
I remember catching tilapia in 1990-1991 just upstream of Sangam. Was in school and had gone on a family picnic. I was fishing with bamboo cane, float and worm.
If I remember right one of the largest tilapia I've caught was at Croc Rocks years ago, again on worm and float.
Never knew what a mahseer was then and even if I did, I didn't have any tackle

Regards,
Mighty Marlin.

What is the Largest Talapia caught? It would be interesting for people on the forum to list out their largest Talapia catch.

Mine must have been about 1 lb or just under...

Robby caught one at the smaller of the Wasi lakes last December. It was nearly 3 lbs. One broke my line that was bigger than 3 lbs, i was using 6lb line and fishing from a coracle. It went under the coracle, but i managed to see the fish just before it did.

3lb wow!!

Bobby ! That lake has a lot of very big fish (except mahseer).
I just forget about mahseer when i am there and try for everything else.
Drift back in time to those magical float fishing days
And if you want big, there are even a couple of crocs in the lake for size

This is the largest I have caught to date. No idea about weight though.

[img][img]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/RHB65/DSCN1400-1.jpg[/img][/img]

Yesterday was the second time that we came to within a few feet of a croc (at the same spot, Akshay) whilst being in water upto our knees. They have been known to move off but yesterday's croc returned to the same spot whilst we were still there. Or atleast that's what Prathap said, I couldn't see it.

Rustam

Hey Rustam,


Yesterday was the second time that we came to within a few feet of a croc (at the same spot, Akshay) whilst being in water upto our knees.

Coming to think of it now, that croc was probably sitting there till we got too close. I had one 6ft away from me while I was swimming in the water to retrive a snagged plug. Small bugger but still was scary.
The last time we were out that croc was about 10feet away when he decided to take off and we were almost waist deep in the water.

Regards,
Mighty Marlin.

That's a nice fish Rustam, who took the picture this time?

Akshay, your memory is playing tricks. The water level has risen since the two of us were there but it wasn't waist high. I have the camera pouch on my belt, so I have to be extra careful about where I go or slipping..... It certainly was somewhere between knee and waist height, depending on where you stood.

The first time I did not even know there was a croc next to where Prathap was playing the murral and must have been 20 ft behind you chaps. However, this time we were within 7 feet of the blighter when he pushed off and came back.

The accepted wisdom is that murral will not be found near crocs but the above seems to disprove this theory. We also caught a murral at Forbes Sagar (near the one room ruin) just a few feet from another croc.

Rustam

Hehehe...Prathap I think - 31st December, 2005.

Should have displayed that fish better though.

Rustam

Hi Guys,

Reacting to Bobby's request, I emailed to Bops my presentation and dissertation during that Symposium. I dont know how to attach them in this forum. So, if any of you are interested, it's with our Master.

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Thanks a Ton JB, I have requested Bops to mail it to me..

Figured it was you this time mate, noticed the Fish was over a micro barby (between the fingers in your right hand)

[quote="Rustam Bana"]This is the largest I have caught to date. No idea about weight though.

Tasty morsel huh Rustam
Don't tell me you came across the crocs in the channel ?
They are usually on left side of the lake when looking down from the cottage.
Catch any carp this time ??
How was the colour of the water ?
Regards
Owen

Hi folks,

I'm not sure which address JB sent the file to since I haven't received it. JB please mail it to info at indianangler.com

I will upload it here for our members.

Bops

Must get bacy for my pipe - will make me look a little more distinguished. One of life's little pleasures is puffing away whilst reeling in a murral to the coracle, whilst squinting against the smoke stingy the left eye.

Rustam

You betcha! Beats murral into a cocked hat. Especially when you find that the portable gas stove has a cracked o-ring and you cook it over a wood fire. Worth the effort......so long as I am not squatting next to it.



WHAT!!! Does one also turn blind at 50?

Put up a whole ruddy post on the subject and you missed it?

Perhaps you need to keep a powerful magnifying glass next to the monitor.

Bops,

Sori about that. I have just re-sent it to your gmail adress; 2 emails

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Hi folks,

Here are the papers thanks to Aznir. Right click on the link and choose "Save target as" then save it to your computer before opening it.

http://www.indianangler.com/files/conservation.doc

http://www.indianangler.com/files/tagging.doc

Cheers
Bops

WHAT!!! Does one also turn blind at 50?
Just smart Dude

Put up a whole ruddy post on the subject and you missed it?
Normally never happens. Your posts are almost always good for a laugh

Perhaps you need to keep a powerful magnifying glass next to the monitor. [/quote]
I'll think about that one

Meanwhile where the hell is this post of yours

Here you go your highness...

http://www.indianangler.com/viewtopic.php?t=210

Some people....

Hey Rusty,

Stop arguing with them elderly people...

Owen -

Hey Rusty - Tilapia was deep-fried and limed, I presume ??

Only after it was marinated in fish masala for 10 hours or so. Can't recall there being any lime but we did have a bottle of wine.

Now stop hijacking this blokes thread.

Hijack ?

Just trying to get some respect into this thread before it goes in the gutters..

10 hours! might as well just eat the fish masala...

After 10 hours in Masala hope you took it with a Red n not a White!!

Hey Bobby,
Out there anything will do. Even the local hooch.
Guy's the Tilapia is really tasty on its own. Just salt and lime as suggested by Gavin and a light fry I can actually tase it

Thats how I used to eat them, with a bit of pepper or Chilli powder..

As a rule I dont take the hard stuff mate, I do wines and if the wine is not good then beer..

When I go fishing I ban drinking at the spot we are fishing, unless we are back at camp just telling tales.

I dont want to have to stay up all night looking out for someone's ass when they are drunk (which has been done)

I'm joking mate! I just drink beer myself!

Owen/Bobby - You are truly tilapia connoiseurs..

If I remember correctly a Talapia was perhaps the first fish I ever caught with a hook

Getting back to JB's presentation, i could not open the document on conservation.
The tagging document opened but i could not veiw the picture of the tag.
Anyone else faced similar problems, or is it just me ?

JB just a few concerns for this project.

1. I would love to know the migratory patterns of the mahseer, and so would any angler, but this should not spell doom for the fish, because we get to know almost exactly where they are during various times of the year. Especially the spawning season.
To counter this, a closed season at certain stretches would have to be put into effect.

2. The fishes that you have mentioned, on which the tags have been tried, seem to be more of the scale less variety. Will there be a problem for fish with large scales and chances of infection. I know this could be quite an ignorant question to ask, and the process is probably clinically safe and proven. Could you share some photographs of fish with scales that have been tagged.

3. Would it not be better to first try this on Carnatic Carp that are not so vunerable and keep them in confinement till we are sure that nothing can go wrong.
Over the years this great fish has been abused so much, that we need to take every precaution before we get into it.

Regards
Owen

Hey OB - Please send the presentation to my mail ID

HI OB, thanks for the response. It's the very reason I posted the proposal to this forum; to get anglers' feelings on the issue. I myself am not 100% sure of pushing this idea further to JLR. I was only triggered by Mr Kumar's enquiry, and he's now somewhere else.

There is a mahseer sanctuary here in Malaysia (red mahseer) which operates an eco-fishing camp upstream. They have been tagging the mahseer by using micro-chip inserted just below the dorsal. I was at first shocked that they extract a scale first before inserting the chip. But I was assured by the scientist that it's okay. The scale will grow back. But what about infection? He said the fish is put in a medical bath first before the tagging operation.


Of course this approach is impractical at the Cauvery. I dont have the stats, but PDA tags have been used for freshwater scaled fishes without much harm.

The scientist just called me the other day. They have run out of those chips. Asked me whether I could donate my PDA tags to them. I said of course, provided I get a free fishig trip, hehe!

I think the concern for some anglers may be whether we would like to catch a fish to find an 'alien' object sticking out at the dorsal area, saying "somebody else had caught me first, sorry!'

If anglers can tolerate that, then tagging would be helpful. Understanding the patterns of mahseer behaviour would help decide on which parts of the river to be closed at which time of year.

Say, it may be a good idea to set up a group that helps conserve the Cauvery, especially the mahseer (dont forget the murrel and pink carp too; they are unique species). Call it "Friends Of The Cauvery (FOC!)' or something. The group can contribute in the form of education to fellow anglers, help set up conservation policies etc. It's a good way of giving something back to the river and its great fishes.

let me share some thing that happened in Malaysia. One guy mentioned a similar idea in the Mal Fishing Net forum. It ended up with the formation of Kelah Action Group of Malaysia (KAGUM). It's a small group of volunteers that work with govt and NGO groups conserving malaysian rivers. We do river clean-ups, propagate info on fish conservation, get called by organisations for advise etc. Our latest activity is organising a series of monthly talks on fish, fishing and river conservation stuff. (The kelah (Malaysian Rd Mahseer) is a symbol of river sportfishes here.).

We just set up a website (still raw though). Check it out at kagum.org.

Cauvery conservation group can be based in Bangalore. I presume many of the Cauvery regulars are based in this 'Silicon City'.

So, waddayathink?

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Hi JB,
was very happy to see your reply.
I have been checking with Pat and he also mentioned the micro chip insertion being employed by conservation groups in the US and Canada.
He was of the opinion that if a group like WASI could show their credentials and project work, the tags would probably be sent to us FOC.

I was just wondering about the system of tracking, and was discussing it on PM with a couple of members on the forum.

1. Would an angler be able to go to JLR office and be told which pool has the biggies today ?
2. The tracking equipment - what would it cost ? Would we be silent observers while someone across the world checks on our fish.
3. The removal of a scale is rather disturbing and the fact that the hygenic conditions on the banks of our rivers may leave a lot to be desired for such an operation, not to mention the skills required and the chemical bath there after. (Wonder sometimes whether some of the boys take time out to bathe at all during a trip)

So although the above method could be an option, maybe your idea will work better.
I volunteer my services, and would like to meet with you when convenient to learn more JB.

I am planning a 10 day trip to the Kaveri in December and we could look into the possibilities of trying out your method in the various stretches we plan to fish.

Very glad to hear that you have been able to trigger conservation ideas in Malaysia. High time anglers all over this country also put their best efforts into conserving and preserving the beautiful waters and fish therein for future generations.

Regards
Owen

OB,

Once a fish is caught, the tag (be it mchip or PDA) is inserted, details of the capture (fish weight, dimensions, location, time/date, weather condition etc) are recorded, and the fish released. We will not see the tag until someone cathes the fish again (obviously). When this happens, the angler/guide is supposed to record details of the tag.

In the case of the PDA tag, just visually read the code number. For microchip tags, the angler/guide needs a handheld scanner. Then, details of the (second) capture are recorded, and the fish released again.

So, for the Cauvery, I feel the PDA tag is more practical: cheaper, simpler, less chance of equipment failure. The only thing that remains is for the visiting angler to help the gillie write down the capture details in a small logbook.

All this is given in my proposal writeup for mahseer tagging, that Bops posted recently.

"Would an angler be able to go to JLR office and be told which pool has the biggies today ?"

Tagging does not change the situation it is today. The feedback info wont be faster than now. But it can help in predicting the movement of big mahseer up and down the river, based on factors like water level, time of year etc.

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Hi JB,
I read the report as soon as it was posted, just had some misconceptions about the micro chip insertion and tracking, but your post clears up the bit about the micro chip tagging. Thanks for the info JB.
Also seeing that the season on the Kaveri begins from November, it would not be a bad idea for those who are interested in getting to see the procedure as we may not have guides along with us in some of the places we plan to fish. Can the equipment be given to me if we are fortunate enough to land some big fish in December, starting Doddamakli ?
Assuming this will have JLR's approval of course.
Regards
Owen

Owen, wouldn't you need the Fisheries Department approval rather than JLR's?

Rustam

Approval from Fishery Department?! Sure and u want to tag in November! Suggest that you go ahead and do it, but think like a bureaucrat - involve several parties (not persons) like the Cauvery Angling Society (there is'nt one? just form one with 20 members ), somebody from Lonavla/Tata's (they're semi-govt ), some retired angler from the services as Chairman of the Radio Tagging Program of the Cauvery Anglers Association or Society (and REgistered with Govt. is a must) and maybe get the local SDM to inaugurate the first tag..

Fish are fewer and further..happy tagging

Who the heck from the fisheries dept will bother anyway. It's only JLR we will have to get permission from, and that seems to be half done as i understand from JB's mail, that Sundar had suggested it.
Wouldn't want to get suspended just because JLR was not informed.

Owen,
We'll need some kind of a favourable nod from a govt. agency( forest dept. or fisheries dept.) besides JLR.
Tagging fish is the kind of thing that will be misunderstood and blown out of proportion and just because they're ignorant. It should ideally be done with their funding and our cooperation and not the other way around.

Regards,
Mighty Marlin.

Oops Viraj didn't see your post. You've hit the nail on the head when it comes to going about this tagging programme. I think you're absolutely right about how to proceed. Also we could get a NGO involved, if they aren't too busy saving strays that is

Cheers,
Mighty Marlin.

OB,

It's Kumar, not Sundar! That may make the difference, since he's not there anymore.

Tagging has no meaning unless all parties understand and commit to the value of it. I feel that, right now, 'parties' would mean;

-JLR who manage the fishery: that means the MD, and Camp Managers
-Any govt body who 'owns' the river or catchment?
-Any NGO who can play an influence factor
-Anglers! And who would represent the Cauvery anglers? I sincerely feel there should be a Cauvery Angling Society. Anglers are the people who really understand the issues, cos they the ones who are are out there in the field

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